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| Subject: Immigration Minister meeting |
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Dude this is crazy??
I read the report and see why the immigration policy of this country is scaring Americans.
I mean on one hand there is clear point system - where if you are not fluent in English or French it is virtually impossible to get in and then ministers are meeting to decide how to educate new immigrants the language? Does no body check that while the application is being processed?
Any same on experience in work - I mean the only reason you admit an immigrant is for scarcity of workers, so is no one validating that before they come? Why they need a complete training. All they should need an "Orientation"; the burden to train and learn what they claimed on application and now get should be on applicant and not to the tax-payers.
Being liberal is one thing but stupid is another. Nobody get me wrong I´m a hopeful applicant myself; but my intentions are to be a productive resident of my new country and not be a burden on it. I´d be much concerned if I had to work my ass for a bum who is going to land in Canada and has a "give me; give me" attitude.
Rules should be clear - you come in if you deserve it. I have no problems with Orientation - but pay for training and teaching them?
What do everyday Canadians feel about it? Moreover with the whole security thing are they scrutinizing the religiously fundamentals coming and settling in the country? Why is that not being discussed and put in plans?
[19-11-2004,23:56]
Anonymous |
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it works like this (in reply to: Immigration Minister meeting)
you come to Canada as an entrepreneur and you bring your wife and children. You come as the partner of a skilled worker and you bring your children. you come as part of the family reunification sponsorship program. You raise your children in a house where english is the 3rd language not the first language. In every case... language is usually a HUGE problem. If we want these folks to get good jobs and pay taxes...they need to learn english. Yes, it would be nice to say everyone must speak english or forget it...but it will never happen that way. When we allow a pharmacist to come from India as a skilled worker, and we are short of pharmacists - would it not be a good idea to help that new immigrant with the training they need to meet Canadian standards so they can work as a pharmacist instead of a taxi driver.
I am the first to complain about government waste and misdirected good intentions. In this case however, I 100% agree with what they are striving to do. It´s either do it or close the doors entirely.
If I sound angry in my comments, it is because I am. If you are Canadian- shame on you. If you are not...stay where you are and spare yourself the insanity of our foolish country.
[20-11-2004,00:13]
Sharon |
(in reply to: Immigration Minister meeting)
Yea well remember Indians speak better english than most europeans (with the exception of britain) and foriegners and canadians (quebec part) themselves. And most of the worlds IT stuff is done by Indians...
[20-11-2004,02:32]
Anonymous |
(in reply to: Immigration Minister meeting)
there was not insult intended towards Indian immigrants. I needed an example. I could have easily chosen chinese or indonesian or anyone else for that matter. In my community, there is a large population of Indian immgrants who were not educated in english or do not recall their english training. That was not the point of my comment.
[20-11-2004,02:52]
sharon |
English as a Second Language (in reply to: Immigration Minister meeting)
I have a comment about language issues. I was a public school teacher in the States and one thing I found shocking. Kids of Latin-American immigrants who were born in the USA need to take ESL (English as a Second Language) classes because they start school, even having been born in the US, without proficiency in English. This puts an enormous burden on the system. Therefore I don´t think the language requirement Canada puts is stupid. I do, however, think that it´s unfair to not be able to get the full amount of points (24) even though you are a native speaker of either English or French. If you are a native speaker of one of two languages, but don´t speak the other you lose 8 points here. You can live and function fully in most, if not all of Canada, with just English. How many Canadians are TRULY bilingual? The ones I´ve met don´t speak a word of French (except the Quebecois!) So, as Quebec has its own requirements for selection of immigrants I think the French should go with those planning to immigrate to Quebec. This is only my opinion though. I am all for bilingualism as I´m a polyglot and a linguist, but to lose points for not speaking French isn´t really fair as I´m not even planning to settle in Quebec!
[20-11-2004,10:50]
Menino |
language requirement (in reply to: Immigration Minister meeting)
language is required if you intend to work. Almost 50% of the Canadian population speaks french - they just happen to live in one place. To save a country from dividing into 2, the rights to english and french speaking education and public services was entrenched in our constitution. Senior federal goverment staff must be bilingual. You did not loose 8 points for not having a second ´official´ language, you had the opportunity to cash it on 8 points if you were fluent in one and passable in the other! There is a big spread between 67 and 92(points without the second language). We have huge ESL problems in our schools. 3-4 languages groups... not just one.
[20-11-2004,14:35]
sharon |
(in reply to: Immigration Minister meeting)
Directed to Sharon:
Taking in from your example;
Believe me - if you want good pharmasists who have an excellent command over English (and will be equally willing to learn French); you can get a plenty from India alone. It seems that the right person (who should come) is not allowed to come and someone who has no business to come is being allowed.
What you refer is entirely a sterotype, biased statement.
Who are you to decide who should come and not? Are you a tax-payer yourself? I mean it is easy for someone on welfare (like democrats in US) to say yeah - bring in more immigrants; but who is going to feed and support the wrong ones?
When the point system is set up the intention is clear to bring in qualified individuals. My point was simply that it seems that people are not putting what they really are on the application. Otherwise why should they have a problem with language and work?
My point is simple - get people who deserve; your views are fundamental - either yes or no. I don´t agree - you have to be objective in your views...
[20-11-2004,16:46]
Anonymous |
(in reply to: Immigration Minister meeting)
To the last comment. Your point is get right peoplea. How do you know who right people are. It looks like your point is get Indians, they are all right people and forget about everybody alse. I do not have any athnical problems. I have may friends of diferent nationalties icluding Indians, but make you point more clear nex time you write something.
[20-11-2004,17:14]
Anonymous |
classes of immigrants (in reply to: Immigration Minister meeting)
dear friend,
there are several classes of immigrants- not just skilled workers. Thankfully so! or people would not be allowed to bring their wives, or parents, there would not be any refugee claimants etc. Yes, we are a democratic/liberal/socialist society - and we want to stay that way. I will be happy to pay my tax dollars for this effort (for the record, I pay plenty! I have never taken a dollar of government assistance in my whole life.) I would rather us my tax dollars to teach english or french to a new canadian than support a military or missile defence.
Yes, we want the right people- that´s what CIC is designed to do. We happen to think that the right people are the ones who will embrace the opportunities Canada gives them and have the best chance to make something of themselves beyond what they could have in their home country - no matter what that country is. Canada has been built on this legacy for 150+ years and I suspect it will stay that way. Nobody says you have to like it... there are lots of other countries to immigrate to.
[20-11-2004,19:51]
sharon |
footnote (in reply to: Immigration Minister meeting)
about the pharmacist... one of the things the Immigration ministry is trying to correct is that the well educated Indian, Phillipino, African, South American pharmacist who speaks perfect english or french cannot practice their profession in Canada because of regulatory licensing. That is one of the things they are trying to fix... helping that pharmacist become accredited to work in Canada. (training) We need to read and understand beyond single press releases to comprehend the status of Canadian immigration policy.
[20-11-2004,19:59]
sharon |
