IELTS and real life in Canada

Canada Immigration Forum (discussion group)


 
       
Subject: IELTS and real life in Canada
  What we have here is a failure to communicate
Canada needs more and more immigrants, but we also need to make language training an absolute priority

Shachi Kurl
Special to the Sun


Saturday, June 23, 2007


It´s funny how otherwise mundane moments in a suburban mall are sometimes symptomatic of where we´re going as a society.

Father´s day weekend, I found myself with dearest Dad running needful errands in Richmond.

I say needful, but I´m not entirely sure he actually needed the haircut. Nevertheless, no one was going to disobey my mother´s decree, and so it was that I entrusted the Kurl family patriarch into the hands of a young man whose name tag indicated his name was Rahim.

Smiling, but without a word, he sat Dad down and pulled out the electric shears.

"Not too short," I said.

Again, not a word, but a smile that reassured so much, I turned to the newspaper, content my father´s head would not be shorn within millimeters of his scalp.

I was, however, utterly mistaken.

Not five minutes later, a glance revealed he resembled a new military recruit. I gasped, tipping Dad, not wearing his glasses and thus blissfully unaware his mane had been savagely mowed, that something was indeed off.

"What´s wrong?," he asked.

Also blissfully unaware was Rahim, who beamed as he turned Dad towards me.

"See! Short!"

"I said not too short," came my plaintive wail.

"Yes, short!"

And there the penny dropped. Unequivocally, Rahim could cut hair. What he couldn´t do was understand how much of my father´s hair I wanted him to cut because he lacked the required English skills.

We cut our losses, so to speak, Dad admonishing me about taking coiffures too seriously (apparently working in television is not an acceptable defence) en route to the next task, a little grocery shopping at the farmers market nearby.

Once again we found ourselves undone by a language barrier, a lack of English that made inquiring about the origins and price of some unknown squash impossible. The item was left on the shelf.

Two incidents, less than an hour apart, where the course of commerce was stymied by the inability to communicate.

The timing couldn´t have been more ironic -- coming days after the provincial government´s announcement it will spend millions more on access to English language training for immigrants.

The Campbell Liberals are pledging $23 million to reduce waiting lists for adult ESL courses. It´s good news, but it doesn´t go far enough.

In a country where the Charter protects minority linguistic rights, where we celebrate multiculturalism (the same announcement also included $1.5 million for anti-racism and multiculturalism services), it might feel counterintuitive to insist that our newcomers be able to speak either official language effectively enough to function in front line jobs in the greater community.

We were collectively outraged when, about five years ago, Quebec´s so-called language police launched a nasty crackdown on allophone shopkeepers who weren´t serving customers in French.

The incidents drew our ire for their mean-spirited nature; threatening corner store owners who had done decent trade without French for 25 years with heavy fines, and orders to learn the language in a far shorter timeframe.

But though its implementation made for unnecessary heartache, the concept itself wasn´t entirely bad.

Consumers in an officially English- and French-speaking country ought to expect to be able to be well served in one of those two languages.

I delight in the fact that stores and banks now post signs proudly displaying their staff´s multilingual abilities for those who may be more comfortable conversing in their language of origin.

But it´s also critical that those people be able to speak the language their kids are learning at school, the language their government documents are printed in, the language they will doubtless be taking their oath of citizenship in once the required three years in this country are up.

We know language training necessarily takes a back seat to our desperation for skilled immigrants. British Columbia alone is expected to need as many as 400,000 over the next 12 years.

It´s also a lesser priority for some employers who, equally desperate to retain good workers in a transient job market, look the other way on the language issue.

It´s admirable that the province, helped by federal transfer funds, covers the cost of English-language services for adults. But the program provides only basic level language skills. Advanced English training should also be free to every permanent resident.

Expensive? Perhaps. But here, in what Victoria tells us is the most popular province for newcomers, a worthwhile investment.

Think of the rate of return for businesses that lose customers because of the language gap.

Think of the added opportunities for immigrants themselves, who, having attained a better level of proficiency, are all the better situated to compete for better, higher paying jobs.

Finally, think of what it might prevent: The fragmenting of our society into linguistic ghettos.

And because people don´t always avail themselves of the benefits they are provided, let´s make it mandatory.

Ottawa´s already conducting a sweeping review of our immigration policies. Why not make proficiency in either official language a condition of citizenship?

After all, if the federal government is prepared to pay senior civil servants, some just years from retirement, to become fluently bilingual, is it too much to insist our new citizens speak, read and write enough of one of those languages such that they may fully exercise their freshly acquired rights as Canadians?

Sadly, as much as I believe in such a course, I´m also realistic enough to know that no party or politician in a minority Parliament would ever have the backbone to infuriate the newly minted voting bloc they´ve wooed so ardently in recent elections.

So, what to do? Good humour helps. But I don´t think Dad will be visiting Rahim for any more clear-cuts.

Shachi Kurl is a reporter/anchor with A-Channel News with Hudson Mack in Victoria.

[23-06-2007,23:51]
[***.121.220.199]
sharon
(in reply to: IELTS and real life in Canada)
Shachi Kurl writes as if Canada is bringing people from the slums of non-English speaking countries.

I agree that there are some like Rahim, but to generalize it is ignorance of immigrants´ skills. Once again I have to say all this: Most Skilled workers from India speak English better than some native English speaking people. But they have a different accent. Indians start learning English in schools since age 2.5 yrs. The most common language of education in India is English. (I know Shachi is not talking only about Indians.)

Most highly qualified professionals are working as security guards or at the vegetable markets.

There are no added opportunities as Shachi claims. There are only a handful high paying jobs for immigrants. (Pharmacists etc.)Most well experienced immigrants are turned down/offered entry level jobs because they dont have local experience.

I liked specially this one from Shachi: "Finally, think of what it might prevent: The fragmenting of our society into linguistic ghettos." - How about making English mandatory in French speaking colonies?!!

The point is well taken that there should be a common national language which all citizens should be able to speak. But they way it is written in this article embarasses me as a new immigrant. Not all immigrants are unable to speak Canada´s language. Infact many immigrants from India are learning French also which is unheard of in India.

Coming from one of the world´s largest and linguistically diverse countries, I understand Shachi´s frustration. India has 23 Official languages and hundreds of unofficial languages excluding the many different dialects.

Most Indians do not speak its national language perfectly well.

I believe, the primary applicants generally speak English well. However, I am not sure of the dependants or family class immigrants. Canada does have English/French langualge ability standards for primary applicants which is fair enough.

More than the government Canadians like Shachi could also help with little and cost effective effort... Just make sure Rahim understood what you said by asking him back.

When I had a hair cut in the US, an African American guy almost skinned my head with his electric shaver. Guess how I told him to cut my hair - Not too short!!



[24-06-2007,04:23]
[***.187.168.3]
Almost Perfect!!
(in reply to: IELTS and real life in Canada)

35 % of indians, employed by NASA are not selected on the basis of English language skills. USA have been giving green cards not on the basis of English. Even the US prsident doesnt know where to use does, do, have and had.
My point here is language is not a rocket science. My grand mother, living in village,never been to school and her spoken is the best yet. Language role is not more than 10% in development.I think, one should have a common sense to judge to whom they communicate. If you use same slang and speed, then it is same as talking solid mechanics to your kid. Every one knows how to communciate with kids, elders and adults. Can i good english speaker/listener who understand ´´ not too short´´ may take ages to how to perform not too short hair cuts. But in turn, if you tell rahim , by sign lanugae- not too short´´, he will make it. Which one someone needs either rahim or english expert? Sure , rahim.


[24-06-2007,06:06]
[***.130.100.180]
REVANTH
(in reply to: IELTS and real life in Canada)
"I liked specially this one from Shachi: "Finally, think of what it might prevent: The fragmenting of our society into linguistic ghettos." - How about making English mandatory in French speaking colonies?!!"

Agreed. And with the rest of what you said too.

[24-06-2007,06:51]
[***.124.176.5]
Anonymous
(in reply to: IELTS and real life in Canada)
Language and communication skills are mandatory...yes. we all agree. Everyone with strong motivation to move on for better life and immigration has also the potential to improve all his/her skills including languages.

I am a bit worried from the misuse and abuse of the "linguistic skills" as the only evaluation of new immigrants. It tastes like poison in honey, for me (hope I am being wrong). This linguistic excuse has been raised eralier by the member called Canadian Citizen. Some of us may pretend to help immigrants, assist new immigrants but in fact they hate them.

Sharon, are you fluent in French? if not why not?

[24-06-2007,09:31]
[**.109.21.121]
Anonymous4
(in reply to: IELTS and real life in Canada)
Language Fight I´m in LOL

The thought of Testing Potential Immigrants language ability all started back in the early 1990´s. History lesson time.

Under the former Immigration act SW applicants could check off one of four boxes regarding their English or French skills.

Fluent Full Points,
Well Partial points,
With Difficulty Zero Points
Not At All Zero Points

To prevent certain individuals using another Visa Post to jump further ahead in line CIC issued a departmental directive stating all off shore applicants had to be interviewed. Processing Times jumped 100% in one year!

Processing Times then in certain Visa Posts back then was ONE MONTH to approve without an interview and possibly another four or five months if an interview was required.

The Visa Post officers immediately saw their work load decrease so they decided to kick all applicants for an interview to assess their English because most were submitting SW applications saying Fluent.

If any applicant was telling the truth they would clearly say that they speak WITH DIFFICULTY. Understanding that the applicants were not talking about their first language and therefore received no points for telling the truth.

If they got an interview the various officers could assess the same person differently based soley on the topics discussed regardless of language ability. If an applicant is talking about their profession they would probably be assessed fluently but if questions were discussed about a topic the applicant knew very little about they would definately score lower.

The system was not fair so they over corrected it and it still is not fair.

Roy
www.cvimmigration.com

[24-06-2007,11:19]
[**.55.216.248]
Roy
(in reply to: IELTS and real life in Canada)
Roy, Thanks for your insight on Language requirements. I agree language plays an important role. However, skills comes first.
Let me give you a classical example. In 1995, we had a new boss from english speaking country for our welding engineering department for a major oil & gas comapny, who had an excellent communication skills. The reamaining all from non native speakers. A week after his arrival, we are all gathered for a serious meeting to sort out a technical issue. Argument began with interperating an American code on pressure vessels to select right thickness/matrial for a pressure vessel. We non-native speakers suprised as his interperation was wrong. When we pointed out that he said ´´ I´m native speaker and my interperation is always right´´ We kept quite as boss is always right. Apart from him ,everone knows, it was wrong. After preiod of two months, that particular vessel was tested during precommisioning . It was a disaster, the vessel went in to pieces hurting three peoples.In addition to this, plant need to wait for 3 months to get a new one, which resulted in 2 million loss.
In some places, people take advantage of the english skills and suppress people with technical skill.

I have been to many places for technical meetings. I never ever seen people give importance to language skills. The bottom line is your effciency. In opion as long as you can convey the message what you intend to say is enough.

How can you expect Rahim to understand gonna,wanna..etc.!!!

[24-06-2007,11:59]
[***.130.100.180]
REVANTH
(in reply to: IELTS and real life in Canada)
I was required to take French in school. Through lack of use, I have lost most of it. It is slowly coming back now as my guy´s first language is French.

I was attempting to hire an executive assistant not to long ago. I received 350 resumes. One of my requirements was that they had enough english skill to write a letter and answer the phone. Out of the 350 applications, I was left with about 25 that did not have huge grammar errors in their application. Upon phone conversations, I lost 10 more because they could not carry on a low tech conversation with me - which meant they could not speak to our clients either.

Skill must come first, but we need to do a better job of helping new Canadians be employable. I could not get a job in India if I did not speak the language. I could not get a job in Egypt if I did not speak Arabic - it would not matter if I was a NASA scientist or not.


[24-06-2007,16:06]
[***.121.220.199]
sharon
(in reply to: IELTS and real life in Canada)
Quote "Skill must come first, but we need to do a better job of helping new Canadians be employable. I could not get a job in India if I did not speak the language. I could not get a job in Egypt if I did not speak Arabic - it would not matter if I was a NASA scientist or not."

This is not true. The English tongue speakers are too lazy to learn from others. They have been brought up with this mentality: (that everyone should speak English...everyone should learn foreign language but not us"

[24-06-2007,17:22]
[**.109.9.14]
Anonymous4
(in reply to: IELTS and real life in Canada)
if I went and applied for a job anywhere in your home country, and I could not speak the language of the employer- I would not get hired. Who are you fooling otherwise. If I cannot write an email to say I will attend a meeting, or explain in the language of my colleagues the solution to a problem, or to express a problem, I am of little value to that company. If I cannot speak to a customer, I cannot sell them something. If I cannot answer a customers question, I potentially lose the sale.

If you are working in an english speaking country, you should be able to speak the language of the customer.

If I am looking for a job in India, or Egypt or China, or Brazil... I better know the language of my customer or my employer or I am of no value to them.

This is not rocket science, it is not racist, it is not anti-immigration. It is logic and is true in any country regardless of native tongue.




[24-06-2007,18:21]
[***.121.220.199]
sharon
(in reply to: IELTS and real life in Canada)
I am the one who should ask "who are you fooling?"
If you read carefully my first comment (post) in this thread you would understand my point. Of course everyone should learn the basic skills and the reasonable level of the language of his new community. I doubt very much if anyone is reluctant to do this. My point is that the language, grammar and communication skills are used as an excuse for hidden racism and harassment. Even in the immigration forums, people are harassed on daily basis for their (poor????) English and grammar. I have given the example re; foreign medical doctors who wish to join the system in Canada. Most of those docs master the English language if we compare then to a great No of the Canadian born citizens. But, they still can be screwed up under the name of (lack of communication skills, or English as a second tongue). I have known Canadians, Americans and UK pple who work in Egypt, Gulf area and they do not know Arabic and most importantly they do not bother to learn any. who are you fooling then?
I am sure you know what I mean.

[24-06-2007,18:43]
[**.109.9.14]
Anonymous4
(in reply to: IELTS and real life in Canada)
The fluent English speakers who apply for immigration often comprise the elite of their home countries (usually a vestige of colonialism, where knowing English was rewarded). Hence, they would tend to be over-qualified to apply for a job as an executive assistant, where they are only required to write letters and answer the phone.
[24-06-2007,18:43]
[***.111.61.31]
Anonymous