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| Subject: Political Question Part 2 |
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Thank you, Sharon, for your political insight that you shared on Richard´s post about the current viewpoint on Harper and the possibility of calling an early election.
Richard: I thought you might be interested in a book called Fire and Ice: The United States, Canada and the Myth of Converging Values by Michael Adams. The author is the president of a major research and communications consulting company and has used his many years of research to show various ways in which the two countries differ. I found it a fascinating read, and would recommend it to anyone who is thinking of moving from the US to Canada, as well as to anyone who holds onto the thinking that the two countries are "virtually identical" (an opinion I read constantly on this and other forums).
Among many other points, one thing he makes clear(and as Sharon mentioned in the first thread on this topic)is how Canada´s most conservative province (Alberta) is still more liberal than the most liberal US state (Massachusetts). I thought that amazing, particularly in the methods he used to come up with it. After reading the book, even my dad (who, not knowing much about Canada, has been reluctant about his daughter emigrating) changed his tune, and he´s now become my biggest supporter in this decision (he finally understands why Canada appeals to me on so many levels).
If you decide to read this book, I´d be interested to hear about your experience with it. I found it wonderfully insightful, and found that it gave me a good sense of how the histories of the two countries shaped the modern civilizations they have become.
[08-09-2007,11:05]
[**.95.51.62]
wannabecanadian |
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(in reply to: Political Question Part 2)
you know who has the temperament and mindset for a good Conservative Prime Minister... Jimmy Carter!
[08-09-2007,14:42]
[***.121.220.199]
sharon |
(in reply to: Political Question Part 2)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
[08-09-2007,16:29]
[**.95.51.62]
wannabecanadian |
(in reply to: Political Question Part 2)
Per Sharon, I agree that either Edwards or Obama would be more along the lines of the Canadian approach in both domestic policies and international relations. Although the problem remains that the extreme for-profit corporate structure is so entrenched, even a government majority led by the Democrats couldn´t change much (i.e. single-payer universal health care), no matter how hard they tried. That would basically require significant Green Party inroads or a Dennis Kucinich election (zero chance of either).
wannabe: I was truly amazed that you mentioned and recommended that fabulous book, "Fire and Ice" by Michael Adams. During my winter months up north, I read and re-read that book many times and found it fascinating. The social categories he describes as related to regional attitudes in both countries is so true.
That book reinforced my relief that I don´t live in the deep U.S. south - I think my head would explode if I did. And interesting that Quebec is the most progressive province, followed by BC, and perhaps Ontario. It seems the Prairie and Martime provinces seem to fall somewhere in between, with Alberta on the right. But right is relative and doesn´t compare to what we see in, say, South Carolina or Alabama. Excellent book. Glad we´re on the same wavelength with this.
By the way, nice to see an intelligent discussion here about such things. And of course, views from all others welcomed as well.
[08-09-2007,18:07]
[**.53.229.17]
Richard |
(in reply to: Political Question Part 2)
My general defense of Harper is set against the backdrop of my observations of US politics and the assumptions that a Canadian Conservative smells, acts and thinks like a Conservative Republican. It really is not so.
There are times when Liberal and Conservative social policy are very close. The big divide comes when the discussion turns to who needs to pay, and how. Canada is, for the most part, anti-business. If you are in BC (the leftcoast) it is even worse.
Liberals think they know how to spend the money better than individuals, and the Conservatives would prefer to let you spend it yourself. Best example of that one is childcare. Liberals want to tax you and run the program, Conservatives want to give parents a child tax credit and let parents work it out for themselves.
That´s as big and exciting as Canadian politics gets!
[08-09-2007,19:21]
[***.121.220.199]
sharon |
(in reply to: Political Question Part 2)
I am certainly interested in international politics. However, as a new immigrant I can´t claim the in depth knowledge of politics in bothe countries of N America. I know the main frame, which is the most important element when it comes to my origin. You both have moved from south to far north and one can understand your interest, motivation and curiosity in politics, counter politics in both sides.
Both countries are neighbours, with the longest international border on earth (hope I am correct). They have to live with as much integration as they can afford. It is a fine thread equation as they both can not avoid the integration and the serious effect of each side on the other. However independence and sovereignty issue is a very delicate and sensitive matter. But again I doubt very much if it would burst, at one point, into a real conflict.
As you are interested in politics in both US and Canada, I am sure that most of immigrants are also interested in politics of their countries of origin and the reflecton of these politics on thier new home in N America (mainly Canada).
The culture in both sides are certainly different (but I just have to say I am not expert in this..can be wrong/right). The old Europe pple are not friendly in particular the English. The Americans are friendly yessssss but also very blunt and sometimmes over confident and snub. The Canadians are friendly, genuine and civilized. (remember I am talking in general as each rule has its exception). To support my self assessment of Americans´ attitude, I would just look to their President. If he was elected on 2000 by mistake (or whatevr name..) I still can not absorb the reason behind his re-election on 2004. I think if I was an American I would prefer to live in the stone age rather than watching this kind of President on TV on daily basis. I remember The American TV presenter asking Fedel Castro at end of 2000 "Mr President what do you think about our newly elected US President (GWB)"? Castro thought for a while and said "I hope he is NOT as stupid as he looks".
I am originally from the Middle East. I can not see any damn difference between the Reps and Dems (US) when they touch the M E issue, conflict and politics. They both are hooked strongly by the powerful lobby & AIPAC. They may distribute some smiles here and there or some false hopes but the situation is getting worse by time.
I do not support, believe in terrorism. However, it is time to delicately define the word "terror" and " who is terrorizing who". I feel so sad when I found/find that the majority of Americans are either biased or so ignorant Re: M E problem. Sadly Canadians share the same but are more willing to listen and learn. There are terrors and counter terrors. In my humble and sincere opinion, it is time for US to re-think and recognize its part in this eqauation (of who is terrorizing who" before it is too late.
Coming to Canada: I have not been in Canada for long enough time to allow me make my mind on who is better than who. Sharon definitely knows better. The libral are more sympathetic to M E problem in the opposite direction and our favour. However, their sympathy is not enough to make me feel the " Ali Papa magic ring". I don´t know how much/far the bond between Bush ns Harper. However, I still find it hard to absorb the story that someone in Greater Toronto would buy TONS (huge amount-size) of fertilizer in order to manufacture bombs. I am not saying it did not happen but also it smells fake. It smells like Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction.
To end the post with a smile, this is a true story. In Pearson International, no one can mistake my dark hair and M E origin. The Imm O asked me: "do you have any link with any of those groups in your country of birth (I was back from there)". I answered him loud " do you think if I have such a link I would simply admit and honestly answer you with YES YES"? The poor man could not control his laughter and spitted his coffe all over.
[08-09-2007,20:00]
[**.109.2.73]
SutarB |
(in reply to: Political Question Part 2)
Sutar: I think you understand North American politics better than you think. Good for you for paying so much attention. In regards to your last comment, you realize you likely would have been arrested on the spot for making such a comment in the US. No doubt you chose the right country to immigrate to.
Richard: That´s so cool that you´ve already read that book! What a random coincidence. I picked it up at Chapters last year while looking for a book about Canadian history. I´m glad that you found it as fascinating as I did, and hopefully other interested parties here will be inspired to add it to their reading lists. BTW: if anyone can recommend a good place to start on Canadian history, I´d love to hear it. My list for my next trip to Chapters is ongoing.
Sharon: I know we don´t see exactly eye to eye on politics, but if that´s truly as exciting as it gets up north, I can´t wait to get there. It really is a sickening circus down here, no matter what your political leaning.
Really enjoying this conversation...
[08-09-2007,20:26]
[**.95.51.62]
wannabecanadian |
(in reply to: Political Question Part 2)
we are closer than you think!
Sutar, in some ways... Canada lives with the same problem as the ME when it comes to the influence of the US. We somehow can´t make them go away. My Arab guy explains it to me this way - Many ME regimes are supported by the US and those regimes are doing a horrible job of helping their own people. Corruption, lack of education, jobs and opportunity - of course people get angry. If you protest, you risk the wrath of a government that rarely values life. What do you do with the dispair and the anger - you turn it towards the country that is helping it all to be and stay that way.
The problem we have in Canada is that we don´t get that upset about it all. We just shrug it off and attempt to ignore it the best we can. Canada is a very passive society and we really struggle with the militancy that we see around the world - regardless of which side of the issue it is on.
I say this with as much respect as I can, the US is not intelligent enough to manufacture plots and scams all over the world. The Weapon of MD saga was simply inept, stupid intelligence - fraught with speculation, extrapolation and fear and the price paid was beyond conscience. The US does not have a corner on that sort of behaviour. That is why the world is in a mess. anyway, I digress. In my mind the women should run the world. We would sit down over tea and work it all out - no shouting, no guns and no dead bodies.
The big Canadian news today is about Haper assisting in a Global Warming deal at APEC. After that the news is about an old Prime Minister dishing out sour grapes about his past political rivals. BORING... and we love it that way.
Perhaps that is Canada´s best attribute!
[08-09-2007,21:28]
[***.121.220.199]
sharon |
(in reply to: Political Question Part 2)
Here I have to disagree with above comments.
WMD was not ineptitude. That´s simplistic and naive, and allows those who dishonestly leveraged it off the hook. The WMD theory started as a U.N. suspicion and was later manipulated to fit the neoconservative agenda in power. In effect, it became the lie that manipulated American public opinion, and it worked. Americans waved flags and took great pains plastering "support the troops" on their cars. Only now is the reality of the WMD exaggeration and outright falsehood setting in (as seen by recent public opinion polls).
Secondly, the old line that liberals like to spend your money for you while conservatives allow you to spend has long been used by private industry propagandists as a rational to maintain private (read profit) control over social delivery services. The problem with the so-called miracle of tax credits is that many people needing social services are out of work, file no taxes, and have no income against which to credit. These people are not in any position to comb over non-existing tax files for possible tax advantages. Rather, they´re in need of social services that most industrialized countries provide directly and efficiently.
Sorry to digress off original topic.
[08-09-2007,23:39]
[**.53.229.17]
Richard |
(in reply to: Political Question Part 2)
I stand corrected, the child care fund is not a tax credit... it is a physical cheque that arrives. ´Private Industry Propagandists´ is a little too inflamatory for most Canadian political junkies.
as for the WMD, I am a big fan of Micheal Moore and I would not trust Dick Cheney with ANYTHING.
LOL, I think this is a clear illustration of a Canadian and American way of saying exactly the same thing with a minor adjustments in intensity.
Richard, we need a beer!
[09-09-2007,00:23]
[***.121.220.199]
sharon |
(in reply to: Political Question Part 2)
Richard:
Do you really believe in some place/organization called UN? I wear my glasses for my severe astigmatism. I read it as US instaed of UN. How could/can you trust/respect UN if it allowed or accommodated such a maniac like John Bolton to represent his country? This maniac does not even respect or believe in UN itself. He was the typical example of the era at the very end of Roman Empire. ...arrogance..arrogance and then more arrogance.
Why has UN been crying Darfur Darfur Darfur but can´t be allowed even to whisper Jenin Jenin Jenin.?????
In my first post, I referred to American election of 2004. With all due respect, with all faults and mistakes in the election process, I strongly believe that the end results reflect accurately the believes of the majority. That means the majority of Americans (not all of course) are clones and copies of GWB, John Bolton and the rest of gang. The clones do not necessarily need to grow a horrible ugly moustache like that of the maniac.
[09-09-2007,09:34]
[**.109.62.163]
SutarB |
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