I LMAO too! #4

Canada Immigration Forum (discussion group)


 
visaplace.com            
Subject: I LMAO too! #4
  I didn´t want to drag it anymore, however, CBV made an interesting comment and Sharon asked a specific question to me which are closely related.

Sharon,

I stayed in Canada for more than 4 years. Frankly, when I moved there from the US I didn´t have any intention to come back in the US for living again. In fact, in my student life in US, I never paid much attention planning US based life, wasn´t even interested much in job searching, my whole dream was Canada centric, mostly influenced by the points Richard use to mention. Socialistics system (didn´t know the down side of it), easy immigration, value..How long did I try? Practically all 4 years. As I had US Masters + experience so never thought that I would be jobless in Canada. Though many guys warned me before I didn´t pay attention. Thinking some immigrants are always whinning, morever they don´t have North American degree. So, my situation would be much better. Wrong. Before passing from the U of T, I again started looking, same thing. Then didn´t lose any time, you may find this was my fault. I should´ve stayed for few more years and try. Life is a single time limited even. Each year is valuable, I can´t play my luck with my wife who was also very depressed at that time, this facet I´m sure you never realize. Almost all immigrant families have some sort of depression due to job disatisfaction. So I said enough is enough, forget about value and whose international image is what. Lets first save the life. American slavery system came to my aid at the right time. In short this is my story. One of my course mate after 6 months got a good job at last, he was very smart. If I would´ve given the effort he gave, then I could almost finish my Ph.D course work at least. He is also planning to move south because of job disatisfaction. Most of my course mates are some filling gas, who are lucky started from hourly seasonal tech job and some left for mid east.

With no doubt, as a system alone Canadian Immigration is far better than the US. Who would argue on that? So easy to get PR. Easy Temp. work permit, all true. However, still world´s most talented guys chase after USA, isn´t it? There must be many good reasons for that. By the way, in H-1 also you can start processing your GC from the 1st day, and if not of certain nationality, and eligible for EB2 then can have the GC by an year, it is very fast now. Canadian student visa is also much more relaxed, it gives work permit to the spouse which is unthinkable in the US. Students even can apply for PR while studying However, last week I was reading an article about Canadian international students. How Canada is getting behind attracting them. Once ranked as a top-five destination for international students, Canada has dropped to 14th place among the world´s richest nations, well behind Belgium and Spain. Currently Canada gets only 3%, whereas US/Uk get 33%. keep in mind that international students are the major US high skill work force. Despite being model newcomers who are fluent in English or French and have worked hard to fit in, only one-third of foreign students who graduate from a Canadian university plan to stay. The rest, disillusioned about their prospects, either plan to return home, or seek work in the U.S., believing there are better opportunities for them there. Full report; http://www.canada.com/ch/chchnews/story.html?id=9d0f7fa3-cb0b-455c-9988-d23b8fcb45d0&k=45989. Noone with common sense just chase after the cheaper one, isn´t it? Most of the people would prefer to pay more for a better quality. Don´t mind for better quality, it is just immigrants choice, nothing absolute. No matter how bad US foreign policy is, how tough to get GC, H-1 spouse can´t work...immigrants would chose US over Canada. You/Richard may feel sorry, but that is the fact. Even look at US/Canada inter migration.
Nothing to react or being emotional.

CBV,

You said that your case and my are similar. It is not entirely true. I would say it is more Richard and I. One American wants to be Canadian and one Canadian wants to be American. My ultimate complain was job, but however, that was not my ultimate point. Like Richard was frustrated about US, I beceame frustrated about Canada. I felt like it was not the place that I want to settle for the entire life. I clearly felt that I can merge more easily with the mainstream US. Only obstacle is the GC. That´s it.




[31-10-2007,21:57]
[**.146.102.199]
Departed_Canadian
(in reply to: I LMAO too! #4)
DC

Your post was interesting as usual. The "spouse" factor is indeed a big issue and one of the many reasons I need to leave the US.

What I meant by our case being similar is only based on the fact that it seems that what you can get in US I can get in Canada but of course you are right your case is similar to Richard.

I am amazed that you support a system that you are a victim of. That requires a character of rare quality. I hope you will get your GC soon.

[31-10-2007,22:46]
[**.122.79.108]
CBV333
(in reply to: I LMAO too! #4)
For those who think the Canadian immigration system is better please read this....

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/27/washington/27points.html

Some of us have been stressing this same issue on this forum, but its all good, and yes, thank God the US system is a little different !

[31-10-2007,23:25]
[**.112.73.220]
Raj
(in reply to: I LMAO too! #4)
Very interesting post, DC. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and motivations about moving in the direction you did. I don´t criticize such decisions and in the same circumstances and background, I probably would do similar.

When you say that Canada was not the place where you wanted to settle for the entire life, I wonder in what way. Economic, social, freedom, taxes, way of life, attitudes of people, or what? Or do you mean purely job situation and satisfaction, where you were able to find your rightful place with your specialization and skills? Could you share?

Another thing still interests me. If, DC, you´re so sincerely decided that Canada is not the right place for immigrants in jobs, economics, and other reasons compared to the U.S., why chat on a discussion board where people sincerely want to move to Canada? Do you seek to open their eyes somehow? I myself don´t mind such alternate opinions and discussions, and it´s ealthy to know all pros and cons. But I´m just curious.

[31-10-2007,23:56]
[**.53.225.148]
Richard
(in reply to: I LMAO too! #4)
We are now in Episode #4 and everyone is comparing Canada with the US. May I remind you guys that this is a Canadian Immigration forum and people who visit this site are looking for answers for their immigration problems.

Most of these discussions do not make any sense as both the USA and Canada has their advantages and disadvantages.
It all boils down to personal preferences.

Your discussions should be based on your country of birth and the reasons for migrating to Canada or the reasons why you are returning back to your country of origin.

No one here seems interested in returning to their country of birth or comparing Canada with their country of birth.

It appears that some of the contributors here are similar to the Economic Refugees.

WHERE ARE YOU SUTAR B?

www.canadaimmigrationbpa.com


[01-11-2007,00:15]
[**.158.148.179]
Balwant
(in reply to: I LMAO too! #4)
Like all countries, Canada has good and bad sides. It irritates me when some people on this forum hate to admit the facts. In medical terms its called "being in Denial":

If Canada is all good, then why did DC leave? Why did I meet a hundred thousand Canadians in the Middle East who said life is better there? Why do I see Doctors driving Cabs on the streets of Canada, Professors of one country sweeping floors etc.?

If someone is desperate to get 67 points, it is because the government of Canada portrays Canada as the best place on earth to live with plenty of goods. If the truth is told, then no one will try desperately for the 67 points.

Like DC, I am never interested in the US. When I studied in the US, I did not plan my life in the US cities. I was always in for Canada. I am a new immigrant and I did not lose hope yet. I will give some years and if Canada fails me, I will leave. I chose to come to Canada... not without proper research. But all my research was around the government of Canada websites and they told me Canada is Good. It was not practically possible for me to come to Canada to test Canadian waters. I had to rely on the information provided by the government websites. I chose Canada because of its promises to me.I will try to get what Canada promised me. If Canada doesnt give me after I give all I have to Canada, then I will choose to leave Canada as freely as I chose to come in!

I dont blame immigrants for trying to get 67 points. Think why they try desperately!! Because they think Canada is good. And who portrays Canada as good? The websites! So, whose fault?


[01-11-2007,00:15]
[**.228.193.78]
Almost Perfect!!
(in reply to: I LMAO too! #4)
CBV,

In all human societies we have some rules/regulations which seem harsh, but those are for the greater welfare. I supoort the US susyem for the same reason. Temporarily I´m suffering, but in the long run it is for my own protection. So, I´m victim but still supporting.

You get good fish in a pond where 10 people hardly go. What will happen if you see one day 20, then 30 then 40 people around you fishing in the same pond? Similar rationale in immigration also. USA/Canada any country can´t support unlimited no. of popualation. So no. of immigrants must be regulated. Frankly, I admire US system when I realize that how sensitive it is to protect it´s own citizen´s right. How would an American feel if he can´t find any hob and at the same time looking many guys are coming as GC holders in his field? In US you´ll see disgruntled laid of employees suing their former employers because they are sponsoring H-1/GC. How would you interpret that upto you. Definitely in some eyes they´ll be racist..mean minded. But I would say they are correct.

Canada´s policy is too open, it is too good to be true. Funny thing is, I´m sure 90% of immigrants coming from India/Bd/Bd... as PR in Canada wouldn´t get a tourist visa to visit Canada. But they are getting immigrant visa. I feel honored with the blue caandian passport. Now, what would I do with a blue passport if I can´t meet the daily bear min´m? Going for a world tour? So..decision is whether to take blue passport and live hand to mouth or to wait some more year for the GC with solvency.

Richard,

You asked something which I didn´t want to share here. Contrarary to popular thoughts, I sincerely believe that as an immigrant, it is much more easier to merge with the mainstream America rather than with the mainstream Canada (Given GC) Job disatisfaction was one reason, but overall I always felt in Canada that I´m kind a isolated in the society, I don´t have much life other than my own community. I prefer to be cooked in US melting pot rather than to be mosaic in Canada.

I don´t wanna say that it is due to just " racist white" reason. I think it is more due to the no. of immigrants grew up in uncontrolable manner in Canada which created this situation, at the same time competition is increasing. Racism is exercised also by some big immigrant communities as well. In fact I witnessed direct racism not by the white, but by other communities. The nice umbrella of multiculturism basically creating segregation & reducing national sense. I experienced that in both school, work. I didn´t find this condition is very healthy. Based on my working experince in Canada/US, I wouldn´t prefer to work under Canadian employers also.

You got it right, one main reason of my presence in this site is to awaken people who are dillusional. Specially if somone knowingly paint one sided rosy picture then I can´t just listen. I don´t discouarge anybody who already took the decision, always try to help them as much as I can. But if somone asks about opinion or the challenges then I speak out.

You have to be positive, correct. Does that mean that you have to close your ears from negatives? What kind of openness it is? If you say negative, then you are lazy..loser..As long as such persons stick here, I´ll be here too.

[01-11-2007,00:42]
[**.146.102.199]
Departed_Canadian
(in reply to: I LMAO too! #4)
Almost Perfect,

I have to agree with you again. An immigration consultant on this forum asked me in an earlier post , if Canada is bad why I am advising my clients to come to Canada.

Either this guy is always drunk or he does nor understand English Language. I never bad mouthed Canada but I pointed out certain flaws in the immigration system and employment practices as every country has their own faults.

Many times I advised my clients they will be better off in their home country, especially businessmen but many of them are adventurous and need a change, so they took the chance and migrate to Canada. Many of them also returned to their home country within one year.
So if a client wants to pay me to handle his application, what is wrong with that Mr. Consultant?
Would a criminal lawyer refuse to defend a murderer in the court?

As AP said most people depends on what the Government posted on their web sites. Everything looks rosy and nice but when they land in Canada then they see all the problems, especially those with limited funds.
Some are lucky but the majority are not lucky.
Many do not want to return to their home country because they quit their nice jobs, sold their lovely home and cars, relinquish their memberships in prestigious clubs etc. They are ashamed to return, so they remain in Canada hoping their fortune will change soon.
The smart ones, keep one foot in Canada and the other in their home country, in case things does not worked well in Canada , they just returned back to their country.

Surveys have been done that showed that less than 5% of coloured immigrants hold executive positions in large corporations in Canada. So if you are a coloured immigrant person your chances of becoming an executive in a large corporation is very slim or negligible.
This is no racist talk, it is the fact, so please I do not want anyone to accuse me again of racism. There are numerous reports to back up what I am saying.

Most new immigrants have to settle for low paying jobs, jobs that are not suitable to their qualifications etc.
Those that are hardest hit are Engineers, Doctors, Accountants and similarly high profile professions.
The carpenters if they are allowed in, plumbers, masons, electricians would be better off than those that I mentioned above.

The usual talk is " no Canadian experience, no work", " We do not recognise your degrees", etc. etc.
The majority of employers do not make any comment and just ignore your resumes.

But as I have said sometime ago on this forum, things can change for the new immigrant after 5 years because in that time he can get re-certified and acquire some Canadian working experience, even at the bottom of the ladder.

www.canadaimmigrationbpa.com


[01-11-2007,00:52]
[**.158.148.179]
Balwant
(in reply to: I LMAO too! #4)
Thnaks for your reply, DC. Helps me understand your reasons and motivations. Although I´m white, I felt racism existed much more in the U.S. than in Canada, especially in the South. If it takes living in an insulated community of own´s own race or culture to feel comfortable, I´m not sure that´s a positive advancement in how people should live together. I think I´d rather take the Canadian mosiac approach.

I just saw a program on television (Discovery Health channel - U.S.) showing a woman needing surgery. Her insurance company denied the surgury (too expensive., i.e. less profit for the company). Her doctors deperately called the insurance company and asked to speak to the medical director to get the company to pay. They didn´t allow even that, and the company administrator on the phone just ended the conversation stating that the surgury is denied. Would this happen in Canada? I don´t think so.

I share this story to show there´s a lot more going on than just jobs and money. You also have to think about your family and kids and these kinds of values when you make decisions on where to live.

Balwant, on this rare occasion, I have to disagree with you here. It is in fact very useful to compare life in Canada with other places. As Almost Perfect said so well, people need to know what´s behind what Canada provides when, for 67 points, it offers this new life. When we shop, we make decisions based on comparisons. This is human nature based on evolution. Everyone tries to improve their lives based on comparison to what one had, can have, and alternatives. And the U.S. is a perfect example for comparison. It´s right next door, but in many ways has quite a different social philosophy and system. As it attracts so many immigrants, it´s a useful tool to help determine if Canada is right for people or not.

[01-11-2007,01:17]
[**.53.225.148]
Richard
(in reply to: I LMAO too! #4)
Relax Balwant. You are not alone, there are still many honest Canadians, even immigration lawyers. Listen this guy, Howard Greenberg, an immigration lawyer in Toronto, compared the Canadian system to a bathtub with an open faucet and a clogged drain. ?It is not surprising that Canada?s bathtub is overflowing,? Mr. Greenberg said. See the full news in the link posted by raj in this thread. There are honest people still there, that´s why the world is still running.

I don´t know the ethics you have as a consultant. As an engineer I wouldn´t advise my client to build a 10 storied apt. on soft soil which only can support a 2 storied building just to earn a big consultancy fee. I believe more or less all professionals have such ethics.

Work force discrimination is there too, no point to deny. There are numerous no. of studies done positive showed that. Only "Be Positive" like will power is not enough to overcome all problems.

[01-11-2007,01:18]
[**.146.102.199]
Departed_Canadian
(in reply to: I LMAO too! #4)
Richard,

I never stayed in the North of USA, slways stayed in the south & midewest. Stayed in TX, considered as a redneck state:). Now in Florida. When you visit somewhere and move to stay there, stories may be different. Racism issue not anything concrete, it is fully how you feel it presonally.

I´m basically no one in the US, just a temporary worker so far. Even then I can criticize harshly US foreign policy to my American colleauges, tease them with their healthcare system saying as a most poor nation we also have free health. Not a single time any American told me "Why you are here" "Go back to where you from". Now as a citizen of Canada, for raising the frustrating job situation I had to digest such words almost in 90% case eventually. You also witnessed some close calls here, didn´t you? I´m not that fool anymore to judge openness of any nation just by their foreign policy or immigration policy. Did you hear this story? http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070925/bruce_allen_070925/20070925?hub=TopStories


Comparison with US will come surely, specially many contributors here are immigrating from the US.

[01-11-2007,01:35]
[**.146.102.199]
Departed_Canadian