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| Subject: Canada seeks skilled Indians |
Here is a good news for Indian Job seekers to Canada appeared on
today´s HINDU, the following link:
http://www.hindu.com/2007/11/07/stories/2007110757271600.htm
SD
[07-11-2007,03:57]
[**.96.73.98]
SD |
Think Twice (in reply to: Canada seeks skilled Indians)
Realistic Outlook on the Job Situation in the IT Market for 2007-2009
1. IT market has not even recovered from the 2001 Dot Com Bubble crash. See
NASDAQ for details. The market capitalization now is only 1/3 of the 2001
market, therefore, the number of jobs available is maximum of 50%, comparing
to 2001.
2. In 2001-2005, the educational institutions continued producing more and
more new ITs on the market. The value of most popular IT certifications (like
MSCE and CCNA) has significantly declined.
2. With the Canadian dollar going up, numerous IT jobs outsourced from the US
to Canada (some 3-7 years ago) are being moved back to the US.
3. More and more IT jobs, Call Centers, DataCenters and software projects are
being moved to India and Philippines.
4. Canadian Call Centers in IT, TelCom and Banking support have lost at least
50% jobs in 2007. This caused some pressure on the IT job market.
5. Rising (skilled workers) immigration in 2006-2007 put even more pressure
on the job market.
6. Some IT jobs have been recently created in Alberta where the (oil)
industry is booming but much more jobs had been cut in other provinces due to
the declining manufacturing sector. The general job situation in Canada has
been stable due to the demand for jobs in construction and oil industry in
Alberta.
7. Today, the recruiters advise to use Networking to search for the jobs, for
the IT job competitive (well-paid) positions posted on the net normally gain
around 80-160 responses. In other words, if you know the employeer
personally, you have much higher chance to get the job.
8. The govermental prognosis for 2008-2009 did not take into account the most
recent factors (like, the expensive loonie). It is also not realistic for
some jobs (like IT support technician), showing much higher average payrate
than most of the techs could get. For the realistic situation, contact the
recruiters first.
About the author:
The author has a university degree in Engineering, MSCE (since 2000) and
Comptia A+ (since 2003) certifications, and an excellent command of English.
In the last 4 years, he has been working in Canada as an IT technician for a
wage a little more than official minimum wage, and barely meeting the ends
with a family of four. To better understand the situation like this, see the
comments to
www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2007/10/03/geeks/
Note that the techs earn, on average, five time less money than they
companies charge for their work.
For the above (numerous) reasons, the author would refrain his son from going
into IT in the future, unless he was in India, Pakistan, or China.
P.S. The purpose of the above is not to stop you from getting an IT job, if
you have already invested into it your lots of your efforts, time and money
(like me), but to prevent those, who have not already started, from chosing a
wrong way. If you prove to be successful in an alternative field, your
donation is (will be) greatly appreciated.
P.P.S. The purpose of the above is not to prevent anyone from immigrating to
Canada. People from poor and desperate countries will fill up the number of
immigrants to the limit in any case (for it is probably better to be a
low-pay worker and struggle to survive in Canada than to be an engineer in a
poor country), even if the people from the rich countries change their mind
(see the immigration statistics by country for this). For those from any of
the European countries: think twice before immigrating, unless you have a job
proposal here. The real unemployment rate is much higher than the official
rate (f.e., any member of the family searching for a job is not considered
unemployed if there is a working member in a family).
[07-11-2007,07:36]
[***.75.238.224]
Andre |
(in reply to: Canada seeks skilled Indians)
Andre, I will not argue with your stats because I don´t know them. I will agree with you in principle when it comes to the IT sector.
How many CIC applicants coming from 3rd world economies are arriving with IT education... LOTS. For the past 10 years that has been the percieved ticket out of poverty. The job had status, no dirty hands, and was transportable.
There is a saturation point to the market. In 2005, the skilled worker quota for India was 11,300 (not including dependents). How many were IT trained. 50%? It is called a supply glut - in this case it is a skill glut.
If you can´t find an IT job at home, there is no guarantee Canada will be any better.
[07-11-2007,09:07]
[***.121.220.199]
Sharon |
(in reply to: Canada seeks skilled Indians)
Andre,
Thanks for the excellent realistic post. The original post in The Hindu didn´t specify anything to IT though.
I was also intrigued by duality of the CIC SW propaganda & the real job market scenario when I was in Canada.
What you told is exactly the real picture, irrespective of any field, may be with few exceptions. I even have an impression that IT professionals are in a little better shape than the others. So, the conditions of other fields can easily be guessed.
Specially your No.7 point is undeniable, true for any field. That explains the real reason of job scarcity. Credential recognition/ foreign experiecne aren´t the major reason. Major reason simply there are too many fishermen trying to fish in a small pond. So, best way to be no. 1 among 80-160 applicants is to have some personal connection.
Current Immigration minister is also following the same path, spreading wrong impression & false hope. I don´t know how long this will continue. With her invitation of high skill talents, she should show what the former minister Joe Volpe & ON minister Michael Cole commented about the condition of this high skill talents in Canada.
Her statement "Our population is declining; the birth rate is low." is not true either. Fact is, Canada´s population may be declining and hence need immigrants. That doesn´t mean that birth rate is low. Check any source, Canada´s internal birth rate is higher among all industrialized nations, except USA and Australia. Some countries even have birth rates like 0 or negative. They don´t feel such decline.
AB/BS are creating some jobs in some limited fields, true. But ON is losing many of it´s manufacturing jobs due to loonie hike, as most of their business are Amercian based.
Your last remark about the unemployment rate is also very realistic. I also have similar feeling there.
Canada has full right to bring immigrants. Problem happens when they try to portray that they need high skilled workers like IT professionals, Engineers, Accountants..like persons. This is not true at all. If they need construction workers, then bring exactly what construction workers, not Civil Engineers. Also true that, if any Civil Engineering knowingly come into Canada to work as a construction worker then he should be welcome too.
Our honerable minister is seeking high tech professionals from India whereas from her own country citizens with high class Canadian degree are moving to somewhere else for living. Reality interesting.
[07-11-2007,10:10]
[***.254.208.242]
Departed_Canadian |
(in reply to: Canada seeks skilled Indians)
the frustration is that the majority of new immigrants think Canada begins and ends in Toronto. We do not quota our NOC codes and we do not force people to locate outside the GTA. Both are mistakes.
If 50% of our 11,300 Indian Skilled Workers go to Toronto, that means 5,650 gold fish each year jump into the same pond, while other ponds are void of fish.
If we place restrictions, then people start playing games like they do with Quebec selection. It´s a no win.
Canada makes it as flexible as possible for people to find their way to Canada. There needs to be some responsibility on the part of the PR to think about ponds and realize that there are not 6,000 new IT jobs in Toronto every year. Someone will have to work at Walmart if they insist on living there.
The minister is not lying. People have selective hearing and when the going is tough at home, there is not just one person that hears the story and jumps at the idea - thousands do. We are back to the goldfish.
[07-11-2007,13:47]
[***.121.220.199]
Sharon |
(in reply to: Canada seeks skilled Indians)
Reasonable argument, as it it looks like, get out of GTA. Good. But where? Where they can find? Do we have any other locations where employers asre shutting down their business because they can´t find Engineers, IT specialists..??? I shoed the recent Vancouver Sun reporting last week reporting how born Canadians with local degrees are flying out of BC overseas for jobs.
Immigrants don´t stay in Toronto just to be with their culture back home. They stay there for job, at least there with the help of other fellow members they can get something survival.
Are we still in the 60s/70s that I´ve to physically get in somewhere to find jobs? No way. Internet made the revolution. Except general workers none need to do that. If guys can find jobs in the USA from Canada then what´s wrong within Canada?
Minister told Canada has low birth rate, that is wrong. "Low" in respect to India/Pak/Bd. BUT as I said before, Canada has the lowet birth rate among all industrialized nations except USA and Australia. Consideration is your, with whom you would compare Canada. China, India, Pak, bd or USA/UK/Aus/France... Bottom line is if low birth rate be so serious then all countries would´ve started crazy immigration. Sweden has birth rate 0, UK has 0.6; Canada has 3.11.
Just last week I appreciated you as you told that Canada needs to correct the NOC list by excluding IT, Engineers...and today you are arguing again aganist your agreement. Well, you can do that. Most welcome.
[07-11-2007,15:17]
[***.254.208.242]
Departed_Canadian |
(in reply to: Canada seeks skilled Indians)
what I want and what an prospective immigrant may want are two different things. Prospective immigrants want opportunities. I want employees for the job vacancies that are staring me in the face right this minute.
I am hunting job opportunities for my guy. High level IT jobs are out there. Intermediate - not so much. again it´s the goldfish thing. There is one position on the MDA site that has been there for months. Employers tell me, they see a great resume and when the worker shows up the skills are not nearly to the level that they presented. After you do that a few times you stop hiring based on a piece of paper. You want to check the applicant out more carefully - in person preferably.
If I could have my way, I would make it very clear that education will gain you entry into Canada but will not garantee you a job in your chosen field. If you still want to come and make a go of it - great. If not, perhaps consider another potential destination.
Regretably, I doubt this will ever become CIC policy.
[07-11-2007,15:56]
[***.20.127.20]
sharon |
(in reply to: Canada seeks skilled Indians)
Its simple, if you can find out where most IT jobs are available and make a list, that will be your answer.
If more than 75% jobs are in the big cities, thats where the majority of the IT population will head to (non immigrants included), its not rocket science. But, if you wish (new IT immigrants) would go somewhere else because there are more accounting jobs over there, then you are asking the person to change career.
Concluding that the immigrants are not ready to move is a crazy thought, the right conclusion is to stop the "supply glut" or "skill glut".
[07-11-2007,17:06]
[***.242.242.2]
Raj |
(in reply to: Canada seeks skilled Indians)
Employers rarely employ anybody just by looking at the resumes, everybody knows that. For professional world, it goes most likely:
1. Initial Phone Interview (if not in the same city).
2. May be 2nd Phone Interview.
3. Onsite Interview.
If the applicant is in the same city, then just the 3rd step.
That doesn´t mean that an employer will lose his interest from a qualified applicant who is not within the city. He only won´t care for the outside one when he gets lot of responses within the city. So, staying in GTA logic is very rudimentary. That´s why & how many thousands every year get job in the USA, they don´t have to MOVE into USA physically or Americans didn´t any love affair with them. Amercians simply go for the Caandians as they can´t find eligible local candidates to fill out.
Education alone can never warrant anyone job, even in the USA. However, that doesn´t mean that probability of getting or not getting job is same everywhere.
That´s not the issue here. Major issue is, Canada doesn´t have the digestion capacity to absorb so many FSW as the Govt. and some motivated organizations/persons claim. It is clear, simple, without any reasonable doubt. Many successful guys are there. Yes, if Canada even can absorb only 10%, then still you´ll see sucess stories. So showing just few smily faces don´t tell any factual stat.
Foreign credential, lack of Canadian experience, racism, bad accent...GTA staying may play some part; but I would say 90% is explained by the lack of enough jobs. If there were enough jobs, employers can´t find any local to fill up then he wouldn´t hesitate to hire someone with overseas credential regardless of race. They are at least not that stupid to shut their business rather run it by foreign educated person or blak/purple colored with thick accent.
[07-11-2007,17:26]
[***.254.208.242]
Departed_Canadian |
(in reply to: Canada seeks skilled Indians)
Forgot to mention, Govt. can´t force any landed immigrant to stay in any particular area. That will be a gross violation of canadian constitute if I´m not wrong.
They can do that for temporary wrokers..assylum seekers..but not to the citizens or landed immigrants.
[07-11-2007,18:26]
[***.254.208.242]
Departed_Canadian |
Recruitment of workers for Canada. (in reply to: Canada seeks skilled Indians)
Dear Sir,
We are Manpower Recruitment organization that assists workers in pursuing overseas career in prestigious companies. We are also registered migration agency of Canadian immigration of council. We are located at Mumbai, India as head office and we are also located at Katmandu, Nepal as branch office. We at DM Education Consultancy believe in a genuine solution ? oriented company, which specializes in rolling career pathways to suit individual within the parameters that may prevail in each and every case. The parameters may be educational, financial or personal.
Therefore we decided 3 years back, to create world-class organization to support candidates in selection theirs right career.
According to the desire and demand of Indian and Nepalese worker to work in Canada, we are looking for to tie up with those manpower organizations in Canada that can assist our workers to build their career. We would be glad if you can grant us an opportunity to recruit our workers through your prestigious organization as an overseas representative. Currently we are having some skilled (like nurses, doctors, engineers, dentists, mechanics, etc) and unskilled (like general labor, cleaner, cook, farm worker, waiter, hospitality worker, construction worker, restaurant worker, etc) candidates from India who are interested to work in Canada. We are also having more than 15 associate agents in different states of India and Nepal and we would like to look forward to establishing long term beneficial business relations with you.
We would be glad to hearing from you soon for mutual and beneficial business relation.
Thank you,
Regards
MANOJ ARYAL
Manager
DM Education Consultancy Pvt. Ltd.
2 Xavier Apartments, St. John Baptist Road ,
Bandra (W), Mumbai-400 050
Maharashtra, India
Phone: +91-22-26406054
Fax : +91-22-26406054
Mobile : +91-9967261360
Email: manojhere60@yahoo.com
Website: www.dmeducation.com
[11-11-2007,21:26]
[***.91.245.77]
MANOJ |
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