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| Subject: Timely story about expats |
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this does not account for everyone, but none the less interesting.
2 items, same topic.
Program on Sunday night about Dubai, the United Emirates and its roaring economy. Part of the story was the number of Canadians that have been lured there to work in very high profile positions. The general contractor for the Bur Dubai is a Canadian. They interviewed at least 10 Canadians working there as engineers or developers. Reasons - make a whack load of cash quickly and then leave. Live like kings and queens for a while and then get out.
Closer to home... today I heard that the locally famous Larry Beasley who´s vision created one of the most livable downtown cores has recently attracted 4 former colleagues out of Vancouver´s planning department to join him in ?? (I think it is Qatar). He had retired at 55 and still has lots of career left so he is now splitting his time between Quatar and San Fransisco.
Vancouver planning department lost some pretty smart folks to huge tax free salaries, oppulent life style and the chance to work on some of the most exciting projects in the world.
Forgot about this one until now - I have an aquaintance that has spent most of his career as a landscape architect. He worked for a company that developed the Kelowna waterfront hotel, casino etc. He has spent at least 50% of his career working overseas. His reason - to show his kids the world. South Africa for several years and now is is also in Quatar likely until his kids finish private school. He is designing a waterfront similar to the project he worked on in Kelowna for a similar salary but his perks are better and his money goes farther. He loves the adventure and the opportunity to experience different cultures and appreciates that his Canadian passport allows him to live and work safely almost anywhere he wants.
According to the TV program I watched, Canadians are highly regarded... preferred over Americans in some parts of the world. All that were interviewed had every intention of moving back to Canada at some point.
So yes, there are Canadians leaving Canada - but these are a very small example of what the reasons might be.
[27-11-2007,07:42]
[***.121.220.199]
Sharon |
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(in reply to: Timely story about expats)
found this number on the www.international.gc.ca website. 12,000 Canadians are currently working in the UAE.
[27-11-2007,07:54]
[***.121.220.199]
Sharon |
(in reply to: Timely story about expats)
Have you seen this month´s Macleans magazine why your neighbours are moving? Interesting read.
Roy
www.cvimmigration.com
[27-11-2007,08:03]
[**.52.219.166]
Roy |
(in reply to: Timely story about expats)
sounds interesting - I will look for it.
[27-11-2007,09:17]
[***.121.220.199]
Sharon |
(in reply to: Timely story about expats)
There are currently 8.3% to 10% Canadian citizens (EXCLUDING THE PRs) living overseas having them the highest exodus rates among the developed countries. I hope explanation of 12,000 will led to all 2.7 millions. This report also didn´t say that this 12,000 didn´t go out for a pleasure trip. They went for jobs, may be in higher salaries. Some Americans also go to the mid east for few years to have some good chunk. We have several projects in the mid east which generates billions every year. If I go there I´ll literally be paid twice as much tax free money with 2 air tickets every year to home. There are thousands American companies are there. Still report says that Canadians are 3 times more likely to leave their country than the Amercians, 4 times more than the Aussies. Reason may be this report discovered; Canadians are more preferable over the Americans. In other words Americans are trying to leave their country but can´t compete with the Canadians. May be. Who knows!
Many studies clearly show that Canadians graduates born and locally educated have to leave Canada as they don´t find job in Canada. For higher salary and for not finding are different stories.
This 2.7 million exodus number is counted on the tax filing basis. True that this number has some phantom citizens. BUT, you are only included here if file tax as a non-resident. People sometimes file tax as residents while working overseas (most of the overseas PRs to keep their status). Usually people file their non residency in the next tax year, some wait for even more. So they are not even included here.
[27-11-2007,09:46]
[***.254.208.242]
Departed_Canadian |
(in reply to: Timely story about expats)
I have no problem with people leaving Canada or the US for better prospects elsewhere.
Another interesting thought came to my mind.... if we want to talk about exceptionally high standards of living and morals and everything that Canada stands for, no Canadian should want to leave Canadian heaven as its probably the best place on earth. (even with the thought that I can always come back when I want). But still its mysterious why people leave, maybe employment related ???
I do envy the examples that Sharon provided though, and also kudos to the outside countries who did not ask for local experience before interviewing for the jobs.
[27-11-2007,11:21]
[***.242.242.2]
Raj |
(in reply to: Timely story about expats)
Raj,
I also don´t see any problem in anybody´s leaving country, working overseas. That cane be for Americans, British, Canadians..Indians..any.
I first brought this issue to give an eye openener. When the poor job situation comes it is grossly pointed that because of "Immigrants foreign Credential..Poor English.." as the reason.
I only try to say that job problem is not for the immigrants alone, it is also true for the born locally educated Canadians also. So, naturally it is many times larger for the immigrants.
Foreign degree.. poor english.. concentrating in Toronto all have some role; but beyond all lack of enough oppurtunities is the key player.
All study show who leave the country are the best brains. Result? This year an Ottawa based research firm ranked Canada as the lowest in innovation among the developed countries.
If someone wants to overcome a tornedo by closing the eyes then good luck.
[27-11-2007,11:36]
[***.254.208.242]
Departed_Canadian |
(in reply to: Timely story about expats)
I guess you missed my point.
Canadians leave because they CAN! They have well regarded credentials, their passport is respected, they are safe (would you work in the Middle East as a white US citizen?)
I found an article that suggests 20 somethings going overseas in droves to teach english for a few years. see the world and pay off their student loans - why not!!!
other scenario... son of immigrant speaks both english and cantonese fluently. Extended family is still overseas. Son goes to China to work in a shoe manufacturing plant. There is now a built in link to a new market...complete with translator, market knowledge and a chance for son of immigrant to walk into a senior job position much sooner than it would happen in Canada. This scenario happens every single day in my part of the country.
Is it an exodus? Your term infers escape from hopelessness!
The planners I mentioned earlier would have been quite happy to continue working as they have been. Full pensions, 8 weeks holidays, early retirement options - but they got a chance to go to Disneyland and have a driver, domestic help, in ground swimming pool on beach front property, 2 plane tickets home a year and more money than they know what to do with. How can you consider that in any way other than Damn Lucky.
[27-11-2007,15:56]
[***.121.220.199]
Sharon |
(in reply to: Timely story about expats)
Sharon,
I agree with you, white US citizen in any part of middle east maybe living dangerously !! And if you ask me Canadian credentials are great, and so are from USA and a few other places in the world. If you consider say employers in Dubai.... I think they treat the credentials from USA, Canada, Australia or UK etc all at par, maybe because of the recent American foreign policies, they may not prefer an "American" for the job, but they would likely employ a non American educated in America just as likely as a Canadian educated in Canada.
Now, expats live in different parts of the world, and I think it will be a minority among them who go out to teach English or for such vocational activities, as you mentioned 20 somethings. We need to include the people who are willing to reside more than 183 days in a year outside Canada, that is living and working in say Hong Kong, Dubai etc, probably because they are doing better outside Canada than they were doing in Canada ? They are not 20 somethings for sure. The case of the planners is a great story, but not the norm I feel, do you think thats the normal job profile of an average Canadian expat sharon ? I am sure they are very happy, who wouldn´t be with such perks.
Coming back to the topic, we are trying to rationalize why people of the working class from a developed nation are moving out not for vocational purposes, but to spend a good part of their working career outside, do you think all of them fall under the category "I want to see the world" ? Also, I won´t be surprised if most of the expats intend to come back to Canada later on, because thats very logical, the place where you grew up has a soft corner in your heart, everyone wants to go back to where they belog sharon.
[27-11-2007,17:05]
[***.242.242.2]
Raj |
(in reply to: Timely story about expats)
Guys,
Not the entire middle east is Iraq or Afgan. Probably you missed my point also that many Americans are also working in Saudi, Quwait, Qatar, Oman,...Abu Dhabi...Yes, because of their Middle east policu they are not safe every where. Try to see how many US companies in the middle east (even including Iraq/Afghan ).
Anyway, high overseas Canadian number can´t be just attributed by the reasons mentioned in that article. To pay student loans or whatever, the fact remains the same. Many studies clearly mentioned that lack of job is the main reason. Whoever may come to console their mind are most welcome to forget the clear report "whoever are leaving..are the most bright & talented ones".
Sons go to China..Canton. Why those sons don´t go from the US in that high rate, being in "lower" quality US? How many chinese are in the US? Just few?
All 2.7 millions (help me pleae if you can show at least half) staying out just to see the world, have international experiecnes...
Some phantom citizens keep citizenship and never live in Canada. True. Why? From Asian countries they come into Canada, then why would they leave again to the much inferior countries? What the hell they get out of the passport there? Umm, they´ll come back to enjoy retire benefits....
However you explain; mostly eventually point to the same direction.
[27-11-2007,17:24]
[***.254.208.242]
Departed_Canadian |
(in reply to: Timely story about expats)
I never said ALL. I said some.
In my small little world, I do not know of one person that has taken a job overseas because they cannot find appropriate equivelent work. Finding an overseas job is hard work - as every immigrant knows. They either know someone that is already there and that smooths the way, they are recruited, they respond to a job posting or they have family ties to where they want to go.
Really and truly...those are the stories I know. The other stories I know are people that come and stay long enough to become residents and then return home to work - why? because at home they were big shots and in Canada they are not so big and not so hot. Tough on the old ego. This is particularly true for those who are used to the Hong Kong standard of living. But, they sure like having their kids in the Canadian educational system and they like the opportunity to bring grandma to Canada, and if the Chinese change the rules - they will hold their nose and lower their social expectations. So the family lives split apart and the story continues. kids follow suit. This is also true in the South Asian community.
Like it or not, what motivates the majority of Canadians to live and work somewhere other than Canada is not the same list of motivations that compel people to wait in line for years to come live and work in Canada.
I don´t know why everyone was poking fun at Iceland. Check the weather in the US midwest - not much different.
Some people consider political stability, peaceable society, good educational opportunities, healthy environment all as big advantages to a lifestyle. If you can find a job/skill match - why would Iceland be such a horrible choice.
And Finland - why would anyone leave Finland with the hopes of finding a better life somewhere else? It is in the top 10 countries to live year over year. Sure, leave for some adventure but to have it better somewhere else????
Who should be responsible for the fantasy that the grass is always greener somewhere else. The climate of discontentment is creating a generation of people that hop from country to country looking for something that is not there. When expectations are unattainable, the disappointment and bitterness is sure to follow.
[27-11-2007,18:00]
[***.121.220.199]
Sharon |
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