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| Subject: question - part 2 |
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First to Roy. That Rick Mercer Report episode was priceless and merciless. Truly for them (us), America is "the center of the universe". I wish someone could hold up a mirror like that here so we could see how we really are.
This reminds me of that excellent TV show SCTV. You guys are experts at biting sarcasm and humor that shows the truth. And I can´t forget Bob and Doug McKenzie of Great White North, eh?.
Got a question for the Canadians here. During the heated U.S. election campaigning here, the Republicans are making a lot of sport of the health care systems of Europe, U.K., and especially Canada. Romney and Guiliani esepcially are making speeches that Canadians don´t like their own health system, and that everyone has these huge waits in order to get care.
What say you guys? Are you happy with your national health care system? Would you trade it for the American private system?
[09-01-2008,21:09]
[**.47.168.9]
Richard |
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(in reply to: question - part 2)
do you ever watch Canadian Air Farce or this Hour has 22 Minutes? hilarious. Corner Gas is pretty great too.
ok, here is my story. I woke up today with steel wool in my throat (not really but it felt like it) Called my GP and made an appointment for this afternoon. Arrived and he took me right away. Had a nice chat, he wrote me a perscription and I was on my way in less than 30 minutes from the time I arrived in his office. My perscription cost me 22 bucks. end of story.
story #2 - about 18 months ago I had a very stiff and red leg. It came on suddenly. I called the nurse help line and she suggested I go to my doctor. She should have told me to call 911 but I guess I was not sounding to alarmed.
I called the doctor and he said come in right away. He took one look at my leg... walked out of the room and made a phone call. Told me to take myself across the street to emergency and they would be expecting me. They were. I was put in a bed immediately and within 45 minutes I was hooked up to an ultrasound machine. I had a blood clot that went from my ankle to my groin. 3 doctors talked to me and we were starting medication within 90 minutes of me walking into my doctors office. I was in emergency 72 hours getting checked every 30 minutes, with heperin shots 3 times a day. I decided this was boring and asked if I could give myself the required shots at home. yes I could so they taught me what to do and I went home. (by the way... the food sucked). I paid ZERO. I had to pay for my shots once I left the hospital and had I remained in hospital the shots would have been free.
story #3 - my Mom went from not being able to move her leg to brain surgery in 24 hours. 7 weeks in hospital and she did not pay 1 dollar.
story #4 - the husband of my niece contracted Spinal TB. 3 years later he left hospital in a wheelchair requiring 24 hour care, physio, special equipment and endless medications. He did not pay 1 dollar.
My medical insurance costs me $59 per month. My Mom pays half that because she is a senior. No, it does not cover dental, chiropractors and perscriptions but the price of medications are regulated and far cheaper in Canada than the US.
Do people have to wait in emergency - sometimes but it more often than not... it is because they refuse to go to their doctor or a clinic and simply arrive at the hospital.
where our system is currently in trouble is extended health for seniors. there are not enough beds so the hospital is holding geriatric patients that really do not need that sort of care.
I know people complain but my family has seen some pretty horrific health needs and I would not want it any other way.
[09-01-2008,21:38]
[***.121.220.199]
Sharon |
(in reply to: question - part 2)
Thanks, your experiences were very insightful. I thought the system was very good as well based on my experiences in Ontario.
Here in the states they´ll have you believe you´re left out in the street or forgotten in long waiting lines in Canada. What I liked was the simple flash of the health card and that was it. Immediate and efficient attention and care. No bills in the mail, deductibles, co-payments, or arguing with the insurance company.
The insurence industry in the states has a stranglehold on the system. Michael Moore´s film on the subject shows the problem pretty well.
[10-01-2008,02:50]
[**.47.168.9]
Richard |
(in reply to: question - part 2)
I literally walked into the hospital with no stress beyond oh my god what is happening to me. With my Mom... it was not an issue of oh my god how are we going to pay for this it was oh my god what are we going to do when she comes home. With Shawn it has been oh my God, look what has happened to this lovely man and what can we do to improve a horrible situation. Money has never been part of any thought process. Access to the best doctors and treatment has never been an angst - we have it when we really need it.
all I ever care about is the sick part. the money or access or wait is never never never a consideration.
that said, I don´t know how we will make out when Mom can´t look after herself and she needs help. Getting her into adequate care may be simpler that getting her into the care I think she deserves. But you know... we can work that part out.
[10-01-2008,03:08]
[***.121.220.199]
sharon |
(in reply to: question - part 2)
Richard just rent SICKO
Sunnybrook Hospital in Toronto is the main Trama Hospital. Due to several factors I developed Bells Palsey which also looks like a stroke. Half your muscels in your face on one side release. My family Doctor sent me to be checked out at emerg. As I am waiting in line for about five minutes to see a emerg nurse in walks a guy holding three fingers and bleeding ^&*(%%^$#.
Before I left the emergency department he had his fingers re-attached and he walked out with his construction buddy. Everything is free as we "Canadian´s" know it must be.
The reason I took longer they brought in three different student doctors and asked me over and over again to smile, make a kissing motion, raise my eyebrows etc.
See in a trama hospital someone sawing off their fingers is not a big deal but what I had was I guess unusual.
You can wait a long time to get a family doctor, going into a walk in clinic can take you time to be seen, going to an emergency clinic when you should of gone to your family doctor or walk in clinic first like Sharon did can make the wait a long time in any major city emergency department.
The difference is we do not have to make a decision on which finger we want re-attached it is an automatic decision put them all back on for FREE.
Roy
www.cvimmigration.com
[10-01-2008,06:34]
[**.52.217.166]
Roy |
(in reply to: question - part 2)
There was an article I think on Yahoo yesterday that showed that the US is last in the western world in healthcare (sorry can´t find the link). It´s no surprise.
I often read how people are satisfied because "they get great health insurance through work". What they don´t realize --Richard,I know you point you this out often-- is that if they lose that job, they lose their insurance too. Double whammy. It´s a fear I just sort of live with; it sneaks up on me in the middle of the night.
Canada, by the way, was near the top of the list, one of the top few.
[10-01-2008,07:19]
[**.72.65.164]
wannabecanadian |
(in reply to: question - part 2)
hey Roy, I had Bells Palsy once. Strange illness. I think they told me it was a virus. All I remember was trying to walk around looking normal. that was a laugh.
[10-01-2008,13:05]
[***.121.220.199]
sharon |
(in reply to: question - part 2)
In general I agree with the main topic; I would prefer to pay more tax for Universal Healthcare like Canada.
However, felt just curious about Wannabe´s statement.
In fact, US and Canadian healthcare system can´t be compared, that woould be comparing Apple to Orange, not Orange to Tangerine. That´s why reliable studies that compare healthcare of different countries exclude USA from the list as it is the only industrialized country who doesn´t have Universal healthcare.
Over the last 2 years I came across many comparative studies (I believe I earlier send few to Richard). From all in general what I understood is Canadian system is one of the top, but not the best. A report in 2005 even ranked is as the last among the similar industrialized nations and with France at the top. Currently, it´s quality trend is downward. Sharon please don´t take it as Canada bashing.
Fraser Institute is one of the top research firm of Canada. In 2006 they published an excellent comparative report in details:
http://www.fraserinstitute.org/Commerce.web/product_files/HowGoodIsCanHealthCare2005.pdf
Their last conclussion:
The comparative evidence is that the Canadian health care
model is inferior to others in place in the OECD. It produces inferior access to physicians and technology, produces longer waiting times, is less successful in preventing death from preventable causes, and costs more than any of the other systems that have comparable objectives, save the programs in Iceland and Switzerland. The models that produce superior results and cost less than Canada?s monopolistic, single-insurer, single-provider system have user fees; alternative, comprehensive, private insurance; and private hospitals. Canada should follow the example of these superior health care models.
[10-01-2008,13:16]
[***.254.208.246]
Departed_Canadian |
(in reply to: question - part 2)
no doubt there are better systems of delivery out there and Canada needs to figure out a better ways of delivery and cost savings asap (there are several European models of universal care with high marks) BUT that was not the question. We were comparing the US system to Canada.
I will gladly wait in an emergency room for a few hours rather than give up our current system.
That said, I think Canada needs to get off its high horse and allow a parallel system of private delivery for those that want it and can afford it. Basic coverage is universal and if you want more or faster or or or you can pay for it and get it.
[10-01-2008,13:34]
[***.121.220.199]
sharon |
(in reply to: question - part 2)
I think so too. Canada badly needs to run parallel private hospitals to solve the long waiting complain. That may also help in reducing physician drainage in USA.
In one hand some people have to wait for physician shortage, and on the other hand physicians move into the US is not a good scenario.
[10-01-2008,13:57]
[***.254.208.246]
Departed_Canadian |
(in reply to: question - part 2)
Roy, yes "Sicko" is an absolute must to see. Haven´t yet but you´ve convinced me now.
To DC´s points. Of course health systems can be compared. The UN and the World Health Organization does it regularly. It´s like saying internal combustion can´t be compared with electric or hybrid in what best and most efficiently powers a car. I´m surprised to hear such narrow interpretation of alternative choices coming from an engineer.
The World Health organization cites 3 factors in rating health care systems - responsiveness (good service) and fairness (affordability). The U.S. and Canada rank similar in service. But Canada far exceeds the U.S. in fairness, as everyone is covered. So Wannabe is correct in which places higher the overall rankings between these two countries.
The Fraser Institute is a highly questionable source of balanced information. Simlar to Fox News in the U.S. Here´s
Wikipedia´s assessment:
"The Fraser Institute is a conservative libertarian think tank based in Canada. Though it contains some socially conservative and neo-conservative elements, it is mostly libertarian. Its mandate is to advocate for freedom and competitive markets as possible solutions to public policy problems. Because of its libertarian principles, it approaches public policy solutions based on government spending, taxes, deficits, and regulation with skepticism."
I think I´ll take the U.N. and World Health Organization´s analysis and assessments over the Fraser Institute.
In any event, glad to see this interesting discussion.
[10-01-2008,14:03]
[**.47.168.9]
Richard |
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