The New Canadian Experience

Canada Immigration Forum (discussion group)


 
visaplace.com            
Subject: The New Canadian Experience
  I have written on the aspiration and experiences of new Canadians. It is primarily an analysis and interpretation of a resarch published by the RBC recently. ´think that it could be of interest to new Canadians and the organizations involved with new Canadians. You can access the article at my blog http://marketingmirror.wordpress.com.

Let me know if you have comments on it. It would be nice to initiate a discussion to improve the settlement process of new Canadians.

[24-01-2008,12:00]
[**.207.103.173]
Fazal Siddiqi
(in reply to: The New Canadian Experience)
Fazal,

I read your paper. It´s a good and realistic one.

I like the part of highlighting recent immigrant job probelm and the urgency of this matter.

The topic of reverse immigration is also true, just curious on what basis you came up with the 77% figure. You earlier mentioned that you couldn´t find any number or trend. is it just based on your survey response?

StatCanada officially says that 1/3rd of the landed immigrants eventually leave Canada, though it doesn´t have any breakdown of the category. We can assume that refugees or family class members are less likely to be in class.

However I don´t believe that either the Govt. or the immigrants have any magic to change the situation as you stated. They are true but very generic. The root problem is the imbalance of demand and supply. There are too many professional immigrants being invited without any solid justification and hence an acute unnecessary competition is prevailing in the job market.

It is good to see that more Canadians are being aware of this issue; even 2/3 years back there was a state of denial on this issue.

[24-01-2008,18:02]
[***.254.208.246]
Departed_Canadian
(in reply to: The New Canadian Experience)
I agree with DC.

The imbalance of demand and supply is a real problem and you never really get to know that until you land there. Hence the importance of doing research before landing.

It is a sad fact that 1/3 of immigrants leave Canada this number is very big.

[24-01-2008,22:34]
[**.204.10.73]
CBV333
(in reply to: The New Canadian Experience)
But how do we know similar statistics aren´t also true for America, Australia, and other immigrant welcoming countries? Where are their numbers in the study? Adaptation difficulties and high abandonment rates might well be a normal and common occurence of immigration regardles of country.
[25-01-2008,01:07]
[**.53.225.236]
Richard
(in reply to: The New Canadian Experience)
CBV,

1/3 No. is overall. For the professional class it must be much higher. Consider the fact that they are just about 20% of the total, and naturally the 80% who are mostly assylum/family class less likely to leave. I don´t know any real number, this guys reported it as 77%. That´s why I felt curious.

Richard,

True. Immigration is never easy.

I don´t know the returning rates of immigrants from USA and Australia. However, utilizing common sense can have some guess.

In my little research (based on personal, literature, stat..such forums..) main allegation against Canada is the poor job situation that tends some immigrants to leave. Not cold, high tax or cultural migration problem. There shouldn´t be any debate here, the original poster also emphasized this in his research.

Now lets have a look of immigrant unemployment rates in Canada, USA, and Australia.

In Canada, it is more than twice the national average rate (keep in mind that all doctors driving cab or Engineers flipping burgers are considered employed here).

In USA, immigrant unemployment rate is lower than the national average.

In Australia it is slightly over (0.1-0.3) the national average.

Similar scenario can be also found in poverty rates comparison. Worse thing is, the situation is deteriorating even more in Canada, on one hand more high skilled educated immigrants are coming, on the other hand their income level is diminishing.

Hope it should give you some clue. Remember the Vancouver Sun report? Canadians are 3 times more likely to leave their country than Americans..?

I know this may hurt you, but as you raised the issue I gave some thoughts, I´m not interested to involve any nonsense fight with anybody.

By the way did you see a recent report on health care comparison? When I first see this I remembered our last bitter skirmish over it. Nor commenting here too.
http://www.exchangemagazine.com/morningpost/2008/week4/Monday/012124.html


[25-01-2008,01:48]
[**.146.102.195]
Departed_Canadian
The New Canadian Experience (in reply to: The New Canadian Experience)
Hello Folks,

I need to chip in with some clarification. The research showed that 77% of the new Canadians who have been in the country for less than 3 years are preoccupied in covering their daily expenses. That is, 3 in 4 new Canadians - a tall order. I referred to this fact later in my article stating that I think that a significant number of these new Canadians from the above 77% would be leaving Canada. I did not mention that 77% of new Canadians leave. Though I agree that majority of those leaving Canada would be from the skilled worker class.

I also agree that immigration is not a bed of roses and there could be an imbalance in supply & demand of skilled worker, whether it is due to lack of Canadian experience, small market size or employers are not ready to hire culturally diverse people. However, I strongly recommend that new Canadians should take stock of their situation, as no two cases would be similar, and consider this imbalance as "given". Every place has it pros & cons. There is no heaven on the face of the earth.

New canadians should bite the bullet, swallow their pride and start working to get to the desired situation, both professionally and socially. I think this is the way to go...

cheers,

[25-01-2008,02:54]
[**.229.194.159]
Fazal Siddiqi
(in reply to: The New Canadian Experience)
Fazal,

Thanks for the clarification. From your paper it appeared to me that 77% is the number of departing ones from the professional class. Now it is clear. Thanks.

Life is not bed of rose anywhere. We are all adults and know that very well, there is no free money. Hard work, determination are the key to success. That must be true for India/china or USA/Canada/Australia. Isn´t it?

However, in Canada the case is unique. What would you say about the very high immigrant unemployment in Canada vs their counterpart USA and Australia? Currently, those are the 3 countries that accept immigrants largely. Data clearly shows that whatever the reasons may be, immigrants are performing worse in Canada.

In other words, if someone immigrates into Canada then likelihood of being unemployed/underemployed will be many times higher than USA or Australia. In other countries they don´t have to console their minds by "New canadians should bite the bullet, swallow their pride and start working to get to the desired situation, both professionally and socially". Very simple, if there are 5 jobs and 100 applicants then 95 have to be rejected regardless of qualifications. Without recognizing this simple fact, nothing can be done. That´s why in Alberta immigrant unemployment is the lowest, 3.8%. Even the infamous "No Canadian Experience" issue can be heard less there.

Not that USA or Australia are paradise, they also have some problems there, however, not that very basic of meeting the end meets, specially being highly educated.

After 1990, Canada started recieving more educated immigrants, And a more recent 2007 Statistics Canada study shows that the income profile of recent immigrants deteriorated by significant amount. More qualified the immigrants, less income?

News are spreading widely, applicants for professional class dropped to 177,000 from 300,000 over 2000 to 2004.

[25-01-2008,10:01]
[***.254.208.246]
Departed_Canadian
(in reply to: The New Canadian Experience)
DC,
Didn´t seem like bitter skirmishes to me. Discussions always cordial and civilized.

Interesting to see internet combed for critical articles on Canada health care yet having preference for that system. That report only compared Canada to Europe. U.S. system not included. It also gave complimentary results on hospital care and patient outcomes in Canada. I wonder what kind of care and patient outcomes people without coverage in the U.S. have.

The report is not completely objective. Statistics can make practically any case. Check an alternative point of view of that report:

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/164/1/84-a

I do agree with you about the job issue in Canada as a problem for immigrants. Always have.

[25-01-2008,12:39]
[**.53.225.236]
Richard
(in reply to: The New Canadian Experience)
Richard,

This health report I also don´t take as 100% solid and hence wouldn´t draw a firm conclusion that Canadian Healthcare system is really No. 23 out of 30.

I came across several reports with different results. Not that they are all bad or manipulated. It sometimes dpend on what factors you are giving importance for the rankings.

Like, last time the report that I quoted by the Fraser Institute one which you didn´t like because of their conservative view reported Canadian one as No. 4. However, all reports specially comparing 5/6 years ago are telling that ranking of Canaidan system is going down. It may be 10, 15 or 20, but trend is downward.

This particular one didn´t compare with the US one for the reason that I mentioned you before and you couldn´t agree. Anyway, For US/Canada direct comparison you may visit here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared

[25-01-2008,13:03]
[***.254.208.246]
Departed_Canadian
(in reply to: The New Canadian Experience)
DC,

The wikipedia report seemed fairly balanced. I´m glad you agree many reports can have bias and an agenda. That´s why I tend to favor UN and WHO for objectivity (unless one thinks they have agendas too).

Back to immigration, Fazal´s point that every place has its pros and cons is correct. Canada´s main flaw is limited job situation for immigrant professionals. Pluses are free health care and wide range of other social services. For some immigrants, one factor may be more important than another.

Very interesting about huge drop in SW applicants over 4 years. Where did this stat come from? Is that because of word-of-mouth stories back home about low job opportunites and expectations? I wonder.


[25-01-2008,13:19]
[**.53.225.236]
Richard
The New Canadian Experience (in reply to: The New Canadian Experience)
Guys, you have made interesting comments and added new perspective to the discussion. Wow to the power of discussion / debate. I am writing two more articles on similar lines, "Beyond Diversity" and "Canada Calling". ´will post it on my blog in Feb
[25-01-2008,14:17]
[**.207.103.173]
Fazal Siddiqi