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| Subject: Richard, your question about healthcare |
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our system is still very different from the democrat proposals from Clinton or Obama
The way I am understanding, insurance would be mandatory but in both cases, the premiums would be outrageous.
My BC premium in a high income category is $59 per month per family member. If I am on assistance or I am a senior, I believe the premium is half. Medical insurance is mandatory.
everyone is covered by the same system. The premiums go into the general revenue of the provincial government and the health care budget is then funded from 2 sources - federal transfer payments and the provincial budget.
there is no deductible and no additional fees once I arrive at the hospital. Some things are not covered, such as dental or chiropractors but my chiro visit costs me $35. Perscriptions are also subsidized for those with low income or if you are a senior. Medications are also regulated for cost so you will find many of our medications much cheaper in Canada than in the US.
[04-02-2008,20:18]
[**.155.160.37]
Sharon |
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(in reply to: Richard, your question about healthcare)
Thanks for the clarification Sharon. Yes, I realize that what Clinton/Obama propose is different from Canada´s. I think it´s termed the "single-payer" system, which is what you guys have.
Basically the government (single payer) sets prices, controls, and disperses all payments to medical providers. It also owns all medical facilities. This is what Obama originally proposed down here, but that was abandoned as too extreme (read socialist) for people´s tastes down here.
So now we´re stuck with a continuation of the employer-based system. But in the new proposed plans, those unemployed, employers who do not provide, or those unable to afford health care would be provided or subsidized with insurance.
But the pain in the rear end here (no pun intended) is the forms, deductibles, co-payments, maximum amounts, and other insurance industry bureacracy, which I ´m sure you guys have heard much about.
(OK, I´m just waiting now for DC to post all kinds of links to rightwing think-tank studies showing its faults :-).)
I continue to admire your (and mine now too) system and have seen stats that it´s among the most efficient in health care quality and delivery.
[04-02-2008,20:54]
[**.53.224.249]
Richard |
(in reply to: Richard, your question about healthcare)
yes, the government owns the hospital and pays the doctor the same rate for a procedure regardless of his tenure, hospital or geographical location.
There is some experimentation with private/public partnerships where the hospital is build by private enterprise but the activity inside is run by the government.
the system has its problems but I just howl when the original Obama system is deemed too socialist and at the same time, Canada is accused of being a republican puppet. OK. We recognized common law, gay marriage, we oppose capital punishment and we have single payer health care but we are so far right that it is scandalous.
I think I told you this story before - I went into the hospital with a blood clot in my leg. All I needed to show was my healthcare card so they could bring up all my files. They filled in a one page form when I arrive. End of paperwork. End of discussion, end of the financial duress.
make no mistake, the Canadian system is far from perfect and we need to get creative about making it better but based on what I read and hear - I will live with its imperfections any time compared to what the American middle class is dealing with.
[04-02-2008,21:06]
[**.155.160.37]
Sharon |
(in reply to: Richard, your question about healthcare)
Yes, I remember your expereince and repeat here to friends, as that´s my experience too. Just flash the healthcard and that´s it. Subconsciously on my walk-clinic visit there, I was wondering ´Ok, what´s my co-pay, how much is going to be deducted, and how to calculate that everything is correct when I get my bill in the mail´. Then realized that won´t happen.
Good point about the so-called "righ leaning" governemnt in Canada. One thing the Conservative Party knows is not to touch the Canadian social and health system.
I wonder, though, whatever came out of that Supreme Court ruling that overturned Quebec´s ban on private medical services. I´ve been watching the Canadian news, and haven´t heard a peep about any company building private medical facilities or hospitals, which I expected after that ruling.
[04-02-2008,21:25]
[**.53.224.249]
Richard |
(in reply to: Richard, your question about healthcare)
yes, universal healthcare is pretty sacred and any whisper of a user pay or private/public system sends some of our population into a frantic tizzy. I guess those folks would be considered left by a mile of Ralph Nader!
http://www.brianday.ca/index.html
[04-02-2008,21:41]
[**.155.160.37]
Sharon |
(in reply to: Richard, your question about healthcare)
Here is an example of our system Richard.
I have an employee who was once my client. After being illegal in the country for several years she met the love of her life and married him. After a couple of years her husband found out her status and began a spousal sponsorship under the old act.
After three years unfortunately he passed away hence no sponsor.
CIC then asked for an update and with a little thought we presented a logical reason to allow her to be approved stage 1 under H&C grounds.
When "D" went for her medical as per CIC she kept being sent back time and again. Finally after her third sonogram it was determined she needed open heart surgery.
Toronto General part of the University Health Network in Toronto which includes Sick Kids Hospital wanted $66,000.00 for the operation for an out of status person. "D" didn´t even have IFH because she never made a refugee claim. With no OHIP (provincial health care Insurance) she was devastated. I convinced them to charge her the OHIP rate which ended up around $23,000.00 on installments because she was stage 1 approved and would be left legally in limbo for ever if she never passed her medicals.
When the Doctor heard the more detailed story of her plight the Heart Surgury never charged her a penny for his services.
Roy
[05-02-2008,09:13]
[**.52.216.155]
Roy |
(in reply to: Richard, your question about healthcare)
Roy/Sharon,
Isn´t the health premium in Canadian system kind a new? I can remember that probably in ON it was imposed since 2004. Earlier it was 100% free (meaning no premium).
Richard,
I always told clearly; and repeating very clearly; despiste some faults (mainly the physician shortage) Canadian system is still better than the US one. This is the same Canada basher DC who showed you report by Fraser institute ranking Canadian system as no. 4 (is it bad by any mean? no.4?). Apparently that disturbed you very much as it didn´t rank the Canadian system as no. 1. Well, then lets assume Canadian system is the world best and can´t have any fault. Particularly comparison with US system? No way! Still many citizens in Canada are highly dissatisfied with their system (mainly due to long queue). I just tried to point that just Free Access or no co-payment alone can´t make a system best if it can´t ensure timeply treatment. You never like to talk this issue and feel very agitated.
When the verdict is given before the trial then there is no need for hearing.
I´m not mentioning any name; while comparing US/Canada did you see a single time they said "US is better than us at least in this respect"? You miss them very comofortably because you are personally upset with USA.
The case Roy said; is possible in many countries. Humanity is above all. I know multiple incident in US where guys got full surgery for 100% free while they were travelling US. In one incident, an elderly people had an heart surgery initially billed over 100,000, later after few months it was reduced to 20,000. Another girl I know who had her baby born for full free. They are not everyday cases, but still possible even in the capitalistic money hungry US system. They wouldn´t do that for me, for sure, burt for the poor they may do.
[05-02-2008,09:55]
[***.254.208.246]
Departed_Canadian |
(in reply to: Richard, your question about healthcare)
I have been paying health care premiums in some form all my working life. When I was 19 the rate was $27. The rate varies from province to province depending on a variety of factors. They are all close in amount.
DC, neither Roy or I are ´disturbed´ that our health care is not #1. to spend 90% of your post going on and on accordingly missed the entire point of Richard´s questions. Perhaps you can stop using the questions that use the word US to signal an opportunity to roll out your us and them debate. it is getting very wearisome.
Richard was looking for the difference between the Canadian system and the one rolled out by the Democratic party. I gave it to him.
[05-02-2008,14:03]
[**.155.160.37]
Sharon |
(in reply to: Richard, your question about healthcare)
Sharon,
Thanks for your clarification about BC healthcare. Though for ON I think it was first introduced in 2004.
About "disturbed by No.1 issue" was completely for Richard. Nothing to do with you or Roy. I only expect/honor his version as he alleged me being "all negative canadian posting". Not you or Roy unless you want to represent him. I didn´t want to take part in your discussion here but felt to clarify something with Rihard´s remark pointing me "(OK, I?m just waiting now for DC to post all kinds of links to rightwing think-tank studies showing its faults :-)."
When my name was mentioned I deserve to clarify myself.
[05-02-2008,14:32]
[***.254.208.246]
Departed_Canadian |
(in reply to: Richard, your question about healthcare)
Roy,
Very compelling story. I think the Democratic Party down here also wants to implement health care on a similar humanitarian basis that doesn´t exist now. The problem is it´s a purely for-profit commodity (i.e. Michale Moore´s film on the subject).
DC,
I don´t know why you´re so excited. My one line comment was just poking a little fun at your supposedly "balanced" point of view on this topic. It amazes me, though, how you continue to say Canada´s system is pretty good, yet always follow up with studies showing how bad it is, mostly from conservative groups opposed to national healthcare as philosophy. It always seems inconsistent, no matter how hard you say it´s the opposite.
I agree that no system is perfect and both have their faults, as you point out. But as far as serving the most people, in as humanitarian a way as possible, there really is no comparison. You keep mentioning queues. I saw an article in the paper about an estimated 18,000 Americans who die unnecessarily every year because they have no access, and therefore don´t talke care of their medical problems. The queue issue for them is meaningless.
So if you agree that, overall, one approach is better than another, just say so, without all the qualifications, warning labels, and conditions, which we already know about.
[05-02-2008,15:15]
[**.53.224.249]
Richard |
(in reply to: Richard, your question about healthcare)
Richard,
Your comment was for fun, I didn´t have any doubt. I also like kaing fun. I hate to use any harsh words against you.
However, it seems to me that you are pretty disgusted with me because I only produce negatives about Canada. Hence I felt to clarify myself.
I alsways say Canadian system is better than the US as a system, certainly not the best. Why do I think it is better? The only reason I see, and even you have to admit that becasue of the univeral accessibility. In that sense, India, Pk, Bd. those countries also have better system as they have "Free" "Universal" facilities for all.
Given all other the same, US introduces a Universal System like canada I would right away change my stand and say that the US system is now way ahead of Canadian.
I try to show you by quoting some good souces that better doesn´t mean the best and have some flaws. For similar logic I agree with Sharon (95% case I don´t) when she says that lower US tax cut doesn´t mean higher take home money there. Obsession can´t be very good. That´s why I have produce sources/data to bring in the real world. By the way, I produced you multiple sources; all of them aren´t by the right wingers. Were they?
Just few months ago you were also upset about the Canadian system, remmeber?
"Having just arrived myself, I stopped by the local hospital walk-n service to check on a constant cough. I was a bit appalled by the many hours wait to see a GP, the somewhat crowded and rundown conditions, and then the quick in/out when finally called. The doctor was already in the doorway leaving before I could even ask a question. Granted I moved (from U.S.) to a smaller city in Canada (75,000), and I may be used to the posh American clinics and hospitals. And even considering that I had to pay nothing, I?m still a bit disappointed in the rushed service and conditions."
Since then I noticed that you forgot this totally till today and never wanted to discuss about your disappointment as if it doesn´t matter at all.
Your experience was in a small town, Though my personal experience in Toronto was exactly the last line you wrote there. Hence I started feeling that "Free" doesn´t necessarily mean the better. May be cruel, but if this becomes a common scenario then I would prefer to pay out of my pocket and treat in a timely manner to the physicians who would give me approriate time. If this continues then the free care would just be cruel joke one day. Welthy people would start going overseas for treatment.
Anyway, sorry for being rude if it seems to be.
[05-02-2008,16:29]
[***.254.208.246]
Departed_Canadian |
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