Immigration Queues #2

Canada Immigration Forum (discussion group)


 
       
Subject: Immigration Queues #2
  I was trying really hard to leave Canada out of the discussion.

Not sure how the new legislation will play out. Everything I am reading is saying immigration will NOT be harder, it will simply be more appropriate. I think DC would welcome that idea. Same numbers just potentially different candidates.

I cannot imagine waiting 5 years, never mind 10 to get on with my future and Raj is absolutely right - motivation is different from a developed country or quasi equal country than from an emerging economy.

I never quite get over the creative math that occurs when people start imagining what this new western life might give them. how rich they will be, how much money they can send home, what sort of house they will live in, what kind of car they will drive.

I will never forget one of the first conversations I had with my north African friend/guy. Would he ever be able to afford a car? Would he ever be able to afford to travel... such huge questions that to many of us seem silly. He was not being silly.

I think for many the chance that it MIGHT be true or it MIGHT happen is so compelling that all the caution signs, or outrageous waits pale in comparison to the hope that is felt to change someone´s certain reality.

I guess for those of us who have the luxury of critical analysis from a western economy, it really does not make any sense why anyone would go to such trouble for something that is so elusive.

[31-03-2008,03:19]
[**.155.160.37]
Sharon
(in reply to: Immigration Queues #2)
Processing Times is something that can be gotten around by those willing to bend the truth to a breaking point or beyond. 48% of all refugee claimants to Canada are successful so some devious individuals take that route instead of waiting to enter Canada or US via a queue. Lets not forget that the US grants immediate status to certain refugee claimants.

Entering Canada or the US and getting married is another route that can work if your in a genuine relationship. If you pay for that process you will be probably be paying for years or end up with a negative answer.

I really take offense at people like Raj who see opportunity only through their own eyes. Opportunity in the US or Canada is what one makes of it. Opportunity in both countries is everywhere for those who are willing and able.

I have a failed Refugee Claimant from Kenya who had a successful business in Kenya and came to Canada with his wife to make a refugee claim. Working for others he did not see as an option so he looked around for opportunity.

He knew how to drive a car so he got his drivers license then went further and obtained a Long Haul drivers license. Started working for one company while building a credit rating. Then leased his first truck and now has nine trucks. His wife improved her qualifications and now is a nurse. Each driver gets about $2,000.00 per week in wages depending on how far they drive. He has an expensive house in a great location and is ordering an Audi R8 my dream car yet he has no status.

I have a draftsman from one country working as a Carpenter making $31.00 per hour who is thinking of moving to AB for another $5.00 per hour. He thought he would hate being a Carpenter but actually really enjoys his success.

Then there are those in one profession who are unwilling to do anything but their profession and are driving a cab. stories.

Some people see opportunity in the stock market and make money by certain stocks rising others make money by certain stocks going down in value.

US Housing Crises.

Whether you have to take a loss and get out of your house or get evicted, people have to live somewhere. Land Banking is the way to go and has been for years! Undeveloped Land is the best investment for any prosperous or failing economy no matter where.

If these people caught in the housing crises can no longer afford the million dollar house close to downtown they move out further and further until they can afford. They may not have a house of their choice but they have to live somewhere because most still have an income.

The real problem with the current crises is those that should never of qualified in the first place for a house and are now being evicted.

Sir. Wilfred said the 20th Century belongs to Canada and at the time it was a logical comment. I for one am not willing to write off the US future nor say Canada´s future is less or more logical.

Opportunities and Income is one thing to focus on another is life style and quality of life which I think is far more important when standing in line.

If the opportunity is better for Raj but the line is longer Raj should stand there. If the quality of life is not perfect but you get a chair to sit in while waiting in line, that line is my line of choice.

Roy
www.cvimmigration.com

[31-03-2008,08:00]
[**.52.218.62]
Roy
(in reply to: Immigration Queues #2)
Roy, you are funny....
Let me say this.... if I´m looking at Canada I would not be sitting in a chair and waiting.... I´ll be standing for a good part of my life in the "I need to make a good living" line.... Right now I am sitting on the recliner with a beer in my hand in the USA on that same line.... hate to tell you this but I think you are just confused about which line you want to stand in.... in fact you are not in that line, you are making a choice for the immigrants, maybe if you are in one of those lines, you will know what you are talking about. Also I don´t mind you taking offense, its my point of view, if you feel that way... please deal with it.

As Sharon said, for the people who have it all, its a luxury to contemplate what people can do to get some of the developed world benefits that you take for granted.... and that is how far they are from the reality of the immigrants, now to think that every immigrant is pouring out their life story to Mr. Roy will be borderline insanity.... a few examples that Roy gave.... those are good ones and very encouraging and I never said all immigrants, its you Roy who take those examples and are painting the picture that every immigrant is like that. Its all about affording the best possible with your means, I can afford to put my kids in better schools here than in Canada... and there is no one way or other on that.... its really simple, you want to make it complicated... go ahead ... indulge !!

The luxury is yours, to sit in a sofa near the fireplace with a hot cup of coffee or chocolate and write about how immigrants should behave and what their choices should be.... and for the immigrants.... it a luxury that all that you think and voice are just opinions.... so they can just take it or leave it.

[31-03-2008,11:27]
[***.242.242.2]
Raj
(in reply to: Immigration Queues #2)
Interesting discussion. Some of this we´ve discussed before. My thoughts.

I find that motivations of where people choose to immigrate often depends on where they came from. The poorer and more desperate the original situation, the more intent on living as luxurious and comfortable a lifestyle as possible. At the same time, the social structure and fabric of where they go is irrelevant. Ethics, morals, class divisions, inequalities, and social problems, plays a distant second to how fast can I find my personal comfort zone for me and my family. Loyalty to a particular country or its ethics is not part of the equation; it´s any country that´ll give me the lifestyle that I want.

I don´t think I can blame them, really. As a historian once said, people are much more concerned about filling their stomachs well before whether they have democracy.

The instant gratification of immediate jobs, consumerism, and materialism is tempting. Yet if all there is in life is one´s personal consumption and goals without regard to what kind of society we´re living in, are those the only values we have as immigrants?

[31-03-2008,13:21]
[**.53.224.249]
Richard
(in reply to: Immigration Queues #2)
Very interesting point Richard....
I don´t agree with the argument that the poorer the original situation.... the more luxurious the intent. But I totally agree with the historian that you have quoted, and as I said in my earlier post that what you look for is different because you are not happy with your life in a developed country.
I also think that its easy to say that consumerism, materialism is on one end and kind of society is on the other, but I feel its a fine line between the two and they are more intertwined than may seem.
Sadly economic independence affects the society that you live in. Why do you see pockets within a city where you would not want to live ? Isn´t that a part of your society ?
Do the people who live there not have an intent to move to a better neighborhood ? If they seek better jobs and opportunities to achieve that and come live next to you, then are we going to brand them as being materialistic ?

[31-03-2008,13:54]
[***.242.242.2]
Raj
(in reply to: Immigration Queues #2)
to my US resident friends - is the dealth of the US middle class a propaganda myth of the democratic party? They way both candidates tell it, Amercians have the same problems Canadians have.

Raj, you mentioned the better schools for you kids. you might want to do some further research. US public schools have a terrible reputation for educational standards.

I think we are comparing some apples to oranges on the wait times. Raj, you are on an HB1 at the moment while you are sipping your beer and waiting for your GC. That option is available in Canada as well. It is called a work permit and a parallel SW application with a wait of 2.5 years - at the most.

[31-03-2008,14:56]
[**.155.160.37]
Sharon
(in reply to: Immigration Queues #2)
Sharon.... I am not on an H1B, but for the sake of argument, lets say its a similar situation.
Is the concept "Good school = High housing cost" alien to Canada ? There could be the greatest school on earth on Canada, but if I can´t send my kids to that school, what good is it for me ?

Now, standard of public schools vary depending on the location within US or within Canada, and I would seriously want to see a research (help me Sharon since you have already done some research) and find out what are the criteria behind your statement and a comparison on how the study determined that US schools are inferior, I would like to then compare how hard is it to get into those schools in Canada compared to how hard is it to send kids to the school in the US.

In my area of expertise jobs are plentiful, I can afford my mortgage without any issues even if I lose my current job. I doubt I can do that in my profession (IT) in Canada, or can I ?
I think in general when immigrants immigrate, even if they struggle its okay, but they want their kids to do well, so basically they look at a place that can provide them with a good balance, if their kids grow up and discuss issues like "value of society" or "culture" rather than things like better job opportunities or so to say "consumerism".... then the immigrants will be more than happy.

[31-03-2008,15:35]
[**.112.73.220]
Raj
(in reply to: Immigration Queues #2)
this was not the intent of Richard´s question and I am not going to get sucked into debating this with you. You believe what you want to believe.

If I tell you, yes to any of your questions you will just say I am quoting the wrong study and argue further, so why bother.

[31-03-2008,16:21]
[**.155.160.37]
Sharon
(in reply to: Immigration Queues #2)
http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:P4M0hWlBxjYJ:www.oecd.org/dataoecd/52/1/37392733.pdf+compare+education+systems+between+US+and+Canada&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=ca


[31-03-2008,16:33]
[**.155.160.37]
Sharon
(in reply to: Immigration Queues #2)

There are couple things here:

US is the number one choice for immigration?
Yes.
The reason:
Someone in the world has a friend or a relative that lives in the US. What do you expect with a population of 300 million.

Is it the best choice?
No.

Most US citizens or residents won´t be able to pay for their debts in the life time.

As I said in previous post. US economy is very cyclical. Tops are high and the bottoms are WAY TOO LOW.
80´s and mid 90´s the economy wasn´t too shaby but now is gonna hit the ground HARD.
And it will get back to normal in about 10 to 12 years.

People can use all the stats and bla bla they want, the economy is going south and that is imminent.

Better education in the US?

I can tell you the requirements to join the University of Fort Lauderdale.

1- You must have a pulse and at least look that you are alive.

2- $$$$$$$

Ok you´re in !!!

Cheers

Bill

[31-03-2008,16:37]
[***.34.111.122]
Bill
(in reply to: Immigration Queues #2)
I know, I know.... questions un-answered after discussion... its a familiar ending.
Frankly, I was hoping to see the research, would have been good reading material for me.... as a potential immigrant.

You are right, you will believe what you want to believe, if that weren´t true, everyone would be on the same page.

[31-03-2008,16:43]
[**.112.73.220]
Raj