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| Subject: Parliament votes on American deserters tonight |
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Tonight, Parliament votes on whether American military deserters (Iraq war objectors) will be allowed to stay and granted permanent residence in Canada.
According to the article, all 3 opposition parties favor them staying and the resolution will easily pass Parliament. But Harper can ignore Parliament and send them back, which is what he likely will do. No Pierre Trudeau, he.
http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5hyjp9Xz2qeSoFhQcp6NFNoe97D-Q
[02-06-2008,22:01]
[**.53.229.175]
Richard |
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(in reply to: Parliament votes on American deserters tonight)
R U implying Steven has no balls? LOL
U and politics Richard.
Roy
www.cvimmigration.com
[02-06-2008,22:30]
[**.55.217.97]
Roy |
(in reply to: Parliament votes on American deserters tonight)
Am actually implying the opposite, blue balls syndrome, or overly testosteroned, i.e. needing to show toughness to impress the U.S.
LOL, Roy.
[02-06-2008,22:43]
[**.53.229.175]
Richard |
(in reply to: Parliament votes on American deserters tonight)
I wonder what the "average" Canadian thinks about this issue, how they would vote. Input, Canadian friends?
We´ve met several former draft dodgers from Vietnam, mainly in the maritimes, and all are so thankful to be in Canada. I can´t imagine the fear these poor guys must live with on a daily basis, wondering what might happen to them if they are sent back.
Will be watching this one. Thanks for the heads up, Richard.
[02-06-2008,22:45]
[**.189.189.252]
wannabecanadian |
(in reply to: Parliament votes on American deserters tonight)
Interesting, wannabe, that you actually met a few Vietnam objectors who settled in Canada. Fortunately for them, they we´re more or less welcomed by the Liberal Party in power at the time.
These guys now aren´t so lucky, but we´ll see what happens. Looks like the vote is really tomorrow. I´m also interested in what the general feeling is about this by the Canadians here.
But I think the security and defense links over the last few years since 911 between Canada and the U.S. would make such an amnesty pretty awkward.
[02-06-2008,23:33]
[**.53.229.175]
Richard |
(in reply to: Parliament votes on American deserters tonight)
Wannabe,
If you can consider me a Canadian then my input; no doubt in my mind that the majority of the Canadians would support to give PR for the deserters:).
[03-06-2008,10:27]
[***.254.208.246]
DC |
(in reply to: Parliament votes on American deserters tonight)
Hillary is more than welcome to come to Canada and lead the liberals back to power... and become Canada´s first Female PM.
[05-06-2008,16:03]
[***.202.39.38]
Stay Away |
(in reply to: Parliament votes on American deserters tonight)
Stay Away - go away and learn your Canadian History. Canada had its first female PM over 15 years ago. Kim Campbell.
Ironic isn´t it that one of the most progressive countries on earth is one of the last to break the gender and race barrier in politics.
To answer your question Richard - I would be more willing to accept deserters under H&C or Refugee grounds if there was a draft or mandatory military service which was the case during Vietnam. Unless I am not understanding something - these folks are joining the army on their own initiative. I would hate to see it used as a alternate immigration method.
[05-06-2008,16:23]
[**.155.160.37]
Sharon |
(in reply to: Parliament votes on American deserters tonight)
I see your point of view. But on the other side, I´m of the opinion that these folks got into something that they didn´t originally sign up for. No one should be forced to fight in someone else´s civil war where civilians are also casualties.
I think they, like me in the past, joined the military to defend the country, not participate in an unprovoked invasion based on lies. Even though they volunteered, they´re now told to participate in a morally questionable war. To me, that justifies their actions of conscience in asking for refugee status.
[05-06-2008,18:23]
[**.53.229.175]
Richard |
(in reply to: Parliament votes on American deserters tonight)
I genuinely don´t know the answer to this question - if you voluntarily sign up, are you not allowed to quit voluntarily too or is there no escape clause?
I can appreciate what you are saying but if I sign up for an organization that teaches me how to kill, and then shoves a gun in my hand... aren´t you already suspending some sort of moral autonomy? After all war and killing is justified only by the spin you put on the conflict. Conscription is an entirely different subject and I would move heaven and earth to help someone honour their refusal to fight another human being.
Can you tell I live in a country that does not allow its citizens to own a weapon and has 2 canoes and 1 airplane for a military?? It also does not help that I have never felt that my country is at risk and therefore the idea of picking up a gun to defend my way of life and my small patch of dirt is foreign.
[05-06-2008,19:47]
[**.155.160.37]
Sharon |
(in reply to: Parliament votes on American deserters tonight)
To answer that question, Sharon, no, once you sign up you are owned by the military, there is no "escape clause". Of course the US military targets low income, lesser educated teenagers with promises of college tuition, etc, in exchange, essentially, for their lives (or health, or sanity).
I agree with your hesitation, though with this war things are a bit more murky than in the past. For example, there are many people who have signed up for the National Guard and are being forced to fight a war they were never prepared to fight. The National Guard is primarily used to help with disasters (hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, etc); this is the first time in US history that it has been used as a war machine.
My heart goes out to the amazing people who genuinely want to help, but find themselves yanked away from their families and their lives to fight overseas for something many of them don´t believe in. These good people are being sent to Iraq for multiple tours--years!--against their will.
Yes, Canada is in a tough position with this one. While I hope these men are granted amnesty, I also understand that Canada can´t be simply a safe haven for just anyone whose made a bad choice.
DC: I suspected that would be the case.
[05-06-2008,21:56]
[**.189.189.252]
wannabecanadian |
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