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| Subject: First impressions with medical system |
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Last night around midnight my 5 year old came down with an ear infection. We´ve been in Canada for 6 weeks, and are not yet eligible for medicare; therefore we purchased private insurance for the duration of our 3 month required wait.
This morning I took my son to the urgent care facility at our local hospital, a 20 minute freeway drive away, as recommended by our private insurance company. After an initial "assessment" which included little more than stating our reason for visit, we waited in the waiting room for 5 HOURS before getting medical attention. 5 HOURS.
People came and went, were treated and left, and there we sat, along with another mom and her young child, also suffering, for an unbelievable amount of time. Yes, I´ve heard about the medial wait times, and now I´ve learned firsthand what a real and true problem they are.
Now, I live in a rural province, but I´m not sure I wouldn´t have a similar experience in an urban area. I was given a form to fill out to apply for a family doctor (apply! what?!) and was told there is a 3 YEAR wait. 3 years to get a doctor! Later I´m told that a family doctor would send us to "urgent" care anyway; that they only make appointments one month out. How can a health care system work if preventative care is so hard to get?
I am disappointed, disillusioned, and downright angry that the medical system allows little kids to suffer for hours on end. My son asked me if the hospital is selfish--I think that says volumes.
I´m scared to death of what might happen if he´s hurt in hockey or falls off his scooter or comes down with something mysterious. Another kid in the facility had a head injury and waited 2 hours to be seen--that is very, very scary.
So there´s a lot to be said about a system that takes care of all it´s residents, but not if care can´t be had.
DC: I thought about you a lot today. You too Richard, for different reasons.
[19-09-2008,17:25]
[**.252.118.191]
wannabecanadian |
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(in reply to: First impressions with medical system)
Wannabe,
If I would´ve told the same thing then the 1st person would slap me is Richard:).
Anyway, I´m really sorry hearing your experience. In any case, physician shortage or so so what, kids are kids, they always should give extreme priority.
I always say, systemwise I prefer Canadian healthcare, even paying more tax from my income. However, from practical point, if the quality of service comes in the question, then I would prefer to get rid of the pain quickly even at the expense of my co-payment. What would I do with free care if I have to languish in pain for long? Last year I read a story in Toronto a auto victim has been suffering from pain and has to wait more than an year to have a brain surgery.
I hear different version from the urban residents also. Specially long waiting time allegation I always hear from the Toronto residents, can´t say about the others though. Here I must have to admit that I hear complains about long waiting in the USA too, though can´t compare it with Canadian waiting as personally I don´t have much experience.
Anyway, health is not my prime motivation behind immigration. Though if that would´be been the priority then I would think about any western European country or Australia. They are also free, but quick and have very high quality.
[19-09-2008,17:41]
[***.254.208.246]
DC |
(in reply to: First impressions with medical system)
It is an awful feeling when the things that you personally hold in high regard fail you.
Today I am left with very little faith in the medical system here, yet I believe with all my heart in a system that covers all people equally. Still, I would have done anything to end my son´s suffering today, or the suffering of any of the kids in the waiting room.
In the US, I worried endlessly about health care, specifically what we would do if my husband lost his job and therefore our benefits, and of the possibility of being denied coverage because of previous illnesses. Now, in Canada, I am worried that we won´t be able to get adequate care--preventative or urgent--simply because the resources don´t exist.
Either way it feels like a big gamble. I can´t begin to imagine what can even begin to fix the very broken system in either country.
[19-09-2008,17:51]
[**.252.118.191]
wannabecanadian |
(in reply to: First impressions with medical system)
Wannabe,
if you were in ON then probably I could help you. My sister is a child specialist there. I hope your kid is doing fine by now.
I´m not supporting US system, but funny thing is in US is that most people even do not know that they can claim many health related benefits from the Govt. Low income people are covered, also if you do not have job you may fall there. The high earners in job transition (chainging job) can claim the previous insurance. Here one of my freind (not even GC holder, a Canadian engineer on TN visa) currently enjoying almost free health with 55K income from the county. Morever, getting 3 grocerry coupons every month..flooding his their apt with milk, egg, chese, juice..
What can fix? First, acknowledge that there is a serious problem. Unfortunately it is absent, people try to not overlook the problem by pretending to be blind. If you don´t admit that there is a problem then there is no solution, it´ll be just worse. People have to realize that free doesn´t necesarrily means the better or best.
[19-09-2008,18:04]
[***.254.208.246]
DC |
(in reply to: First impressions with medical system)
Wannabe,
Yes, that sounds like too long of a wait to see a doctor as a hospital walk-in, in any country. I´m sorry it happened. A couple of things come to mind.
If you saw other people coming and going and being seen while you were not, why not bring that to the attention of triage/scheduling? Also, since your son was in pain, I would have protested and asked to be seen quicker.
The other thing to realize, triage personnel there may have made the assessment that although your son had a painful earache, it was not life threatening or further injurious to wait until proper medical staff could see him.
My experiences at the local hospital walk-in in Ontario were good. One time I had a 3 hour wait, but I was not in pain, true. But I was efficiently seen and taken care of, with no further billing or charges. I never felt I had to thank God I had an employer who covered the bill, yet could fire me at will tomorrow.
Wait times are a fact of life everywhere in the world, except for the super-rich perhaps. Here in Illinois, we needed to see a specialist for my spouse. All the reputable hospitals and clinics required minimum wait times of 2-3 months to schedule seeing a specialist. They happily suggested we could be put on a wait list, however. And this is with Blue Cross/Blue Shield - the premier American health insurance, for top-notch facilities in the Chicago area. My wife asked me, "What´s with that? And the say there´s no waiting in the U.S.? What if I get further sick while I wait these 3 months?" I had no answer for her.
There was a front page story in the local newspaper here (Tribune) yesterday regarding a man in Chicago desperately needing heart bypass surgery, but had no health insurance. He stole someone else´s identity and got his surgery, which cost $350,000. The identify victim was stuck with the bill and his credit ruined. The surgery patient is in prison. With all the annoying waits there, would this have happened in Canada?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-identity-theft-18-sep18,0,5350092.story
If one wants to gamble with one´s health in the States by hoping and praying that one never loses his/her job, that the insurance company doesn´t decide to deny payment to save money, or claims that the condition is pre-existing and will not pay, then that´s fine. The primary cause of personal bankruptcy here is inability to pay medical bills. With the irritating waits there, would that have happened in Canada?
Ontario and all provinces have a sophisticated prioritization system, where people who need medical services immediately are seen first. I know this sometimes can fall by the wayside for walk-in type services (as perhaps in wannabe´s case), but not for major medical needs as I understand.
Finally, when we were traveling in remote Ontario, we met people who told us of their provincial medical care crises (brain aneurism, cancer). In each case, they were helicoptered by Ontario medical services to hospitals in the province that specialized in their needs, at government expense. I don´t think that would have happened in the States, without employer insurance.
So I would say, wannabe, your situation was unpleasant and disturbing, true. But when you look at the whole picture, it´s a fair and compasionate system compared to what we have down here. Thanks for sharing, and hope you continue.
To DC, yes I would have slapped you here. But I would have anyway if I could, for common sense purposes.
[19-09-2008,18:56]
[***.131.12.0]
Richard |
(in reply to: First impressions with medical system)
Thanks Richard for admitting:).
[19-09-2008,19:08]
[***.254.208.246]
DC |
(in reply to: First impressions with medical system)
Although I understand the stress of having to wait 5 hours. Unfortunately ER is for just that, emergencies, and often there are people who are in much bigger emergencies then an ear infection. That being said we try and stay away from the hospitals. Walk in clinics are much faster, and waiting a month for an apointment is a joke. When I am ill if it is not serious enough to go to a hospital, I call my doctor and they can usually squeeze me in the same day, or if not the next day. I also live in a city so that might play a difference, but I have a fantastic doctor, that I wouldn´t trade for anyone.
[19-09-2008,19:24]
[**.147.59.107]
Anonymous |
(in reply to: First impressions with medical system)
Thanks to all the replies.
Richard: yes, I agree with you on all points, and that´s what makes my day so frustrating. Of course an ear infection is not life or death, and of course I do understand that they need to prioritize, but my wait time went from an estimated hour and a half when I got there to 4 hours and then finally ended up at more than 5 (the nurses and staff were beyond horrible and would not have even listened to a request to help a child in pain quicker. I swear they relished the long waits). I never once saw anyone walk in with their limbs hanging by a thread, never once saw anyone who looked more urgent than a suffering child (several suffering children). My husband pointed out that most kids who end up in a clinic are there for basic services--a quick consultation and prescription--3 minutes in and out (yep, it´s strep throat. yep, it´s an ear infection. yep, the bruise will be fine). So to make kids wait for such an unreasonable amount of time, to push us down the list repeatedly, to consider children´s suffering so low priority...well, as a mom I guess I just can´t understand that. The rest of your points regarding health care in the US I think are spot on. It´s true that we probably would have waited a couple hours to see his pediatrician back home, but at least I would have been able to make a same day appointment and do the waiting at home where he should have been. It´s also true that specialists can take a very long time to see--I once waited 2 months to see a specialist for a case that turned out to be cancerous. It is not a flawless system by any means.
Anonymous: sorry if I did not make it clear. We were at a walk in clinic not the ER, it just happened to be associated with the hospital. Apparently it is our only option here in this area of 120,000. Consider yourself lucky that you have a family doctor. I am considering paying out of pocket to see our doctor back home in the States for future routine care, since none is available here.
DC: you make good points too. I´m certainly one of those that isn´t aware of health related tax issues, other than the basics. I have a feeling a lot of things would be much easier in Ontario (southern or eastern Ontario, perhaps not where Richard was). Atlantic Canada, I´m afraid, is living up to its reputation in so many ways.
[19-09-2008,19:58]
[**.252.118.191]
wannabecanadian |
(in reply to: First impressions with medical system)
This problem may also explain the super high urban population in Canada at least in some extent.
[19-09-2008,22:05]
[**.207.127.42]
DC |
(in reply to: First impressions with medical system)
Wannabe Canadian been there done that. Actually Halifax in 2000 my son had an ear infection too. If it was you or your husband hurting who cares but when it is your kid --- look out!!!!
The other fact is in these smaller communities no one panics for any reason. They are all so calm cool and collected it makes things soooooo much worse. Your thinking my kid could loose his hearing, oh my god he/she could grow up deaf and never marry etc. Panic sets in your like a mother bear protecting her cub.
Try the way others get medical attention in tiny towns. Make friends with the staff of the doctors office. By the receptionist a coffee at Tim Horton´s if you have a Tim´s. Hanging out at the Tim´s is a sneaky way to beat the system.
It worked for me. The situation in the small town put a major strain on our marriage. Try your best to stay calm.
The medical system will be their far better when needed if there is a real serious problem.
I just still do not understand Mr Negative (DC) motivation to hang out on this forum. I for one never told him the roads are paved with gold or medical system does not have some problems. Any one that focuses so much on the negative attracts negative things.
Things will get better and if not come on down to Ontario. I can get you a Doctor and not by hanging out at Tim Horton´s.
Roy
www.cvimmigration.com
[20-09-2008,07:45]
[**.52.216.91]
Roy |
(in reply to: First impressions with medical system)
Thanks Roy! Yes, I can be quite the mother bear protecting her cub when it comes to my son, like most moms I guess. I know I probably overreacted a little bit yesterday, but I would have felt much better if someone had taken a minute out of their time to tell us why we were being pushed down the line for so long. All they needed to say is "there´s been an accident" or "an ambulance just came in" and then everyone would have understood. But rude behavior from the staff on top of feeling worried for your child...it was too much.
Anyway, I am glad to hear that the care is sufficient when the case is major (although the 2 hour wait for the potential head injury still worries me). I think that so many of our issues in these first weeks--and there have been SO many--are due to being in a small and relatively remote area.
We immigrated as prepared as anyone can. We did the right things in the right order, found the job first before moving and all that, had visited countless times and familiarized ourselves with current issues and cultural differences, and yet the whole experience so far has just been hard and disheartening. The experience yesterday was just one more thing in a very long line of bad experiences so far, and we´ve only been here a short time.
I´m not complaining and I´m not trying to be discouraging, but I do want to provide an honest look into our personal experience. I´ve learned so much from others experiences, such as the wonderful accounts from CBV, that I feel obligated to share my own.
I think that DC isn´t being negative but just sharing his own personal experience. Maybe we don´t always see eye to eye, but he tries to offer a realistic view into the realities of immigration. Everyone´s story is different, and I maintain that our experience here would be very different if we were in a different area of the country.
[20-09-2008,09:51]
[**.252.118.191]
wannabecanadian |
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