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| Subject: The US / Canada Border Future |
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/639181
Roy
[23-05-2009,09:46]
[**.15.48.61]
Roy |
(in reply to: The US / Canada Border Future)
In europe countries have different languages,different race,they fight each other in one of the most horrible war in the human history (ww2) ,now they got over all this and their citizens travel freely between countries as one .
canada and us still living in the paranoia ,every one accuse the other of all kind of stuff.
iam a supporter of an open boarder policy ,because that s the way 2 civilised nations have to be.
[23-05-2009,14:08]
[**.221.18.234]
QC4ever |
(in reply to: The US / Canada Border Future)
OK, this is seriously laughable. Whose "rights" are the Americans taking away? It used to be common to use a passport between countries--what´s the harm? Where in this world can Canadians travel without a passport? Why should travel to the US be any different?
I personally think all the technology sounds cool--creepy, sure, but cool.
Look, here is a very big difference between the US and Canada: when the US senses a problem (in the eyes of the government or military), it creates solutions. The solutions are usually quick and efficient, not always ethical to be sure but almost always effective and always decisive. The hope is that the body making those decisions is reasonable; when they are not, big fixes come later (usually at a big price). Decades of meaningless studies that ultimately go nowhere are not the hallmark of United States decision making; creative solutions are.
WOW. I´ve never sounded like such a patriot for my home country before, but articles like this bring it out in me. Really--did you read the comments? "I hope all these Canadians especially in Toronto who worship all things American finally get the message here. In that the Americans obviously don´t consider you one of them. Time we support this country more and treat them like they treat us. As foreigners." Say WHAT? OF COURSE "You´re not like one of them" and "you are a foreigner". You are! Just as I am most definitely not a Canadian and am most certainly treated like a foreigner; I am reminded daily--verbally and loudly--at how much I don´t fit in here and never, ever will.
It´s hard when you want it both ways. There´s a love/hate relationship with the US that Canadians seem to grapple with, and there aren´t any easy solutions there. The dependency is real, but so is the need to be an autonomous country. A passport law that´s been years in the making shouldn´t surprise anyone nor should it change the relationship between the countries. The US will always do things the American way, just as Canada will always try to stay its course.
Here´s a poem from See Saw Saskatchewan, one of my little guy´s Canadian books:
USA south, Canada north,
cross the border, back and forth.
Canada loonie, USA buck,
paddle a canoe, then drive a truck.
USA eagle, and Canada goose,
Okanagan apples,
Florida orange juice.
USA starts where Canada ends,
USA, Canada,
shake hands, friends!
:)
[23-05-2009,14:19]
[**.252.115.196]
wannabecanadian |
(in reply to: The US / Canada Border Future)
Ummm, who said the border is not gonna be open? All I saw in the article was that they will be scanning your personal info. If you are honest and legal, why would that be a problem for you? Canadian will still be able to stay in US for 180 days right? I mean seriously, all you need is Canadian passport. Is it really that hard to get?
[23-05-2009,14:58]
[***.6.156.79]
Macro |
(in reply to: The US / Canada Border Future)
I guess I have to agree with QC. I don´t understand why our 2 countries have to have a border reminiscent of East and West Germany in some ways.
As mentioned, Europeans countries are all autonomous with differences in language and culture that makes our differences look trivial by comparison. Yet they fly across their borders by car, train, and foot without even slowing down at any checkpoints.
The only thing that comes out such a tight squeeze on the free flow of people between like countries is mistrust, suspicion, and misunderstanding. The thinking that we´re somehow safer is an illusion designed to comfort the xenophobes of our societies. If we can´t even trust each others internal security systems, then how can we have a normal relationship in the first place?
The world has enough divisions dividing people. This is not the Middle Ages, but the 21st century where we no longer need to be building moats and walls between each other. The Star article makes me hang my head down in bewilderment and a bit of shame that my country needs to do this on the border with a friend.
[23-05-2009,15:35]
[**.192.28.31]
Richard |
(in reply to: The US / Canada Border Future)
Wannabe, I am sorry to think your relocation adventure is not going as hoped.
Passports within the Commonwealth were not mandatory until after 9-11. Canadians do not require a passport to enter Mexico unless their plane lands in the US enroute.
[23-05-2009,15:55]
[***.20.116.15]
Sharon |
(in reply to: The US / Canada Border Future)
-Gill Ducepe (the Block) did the first step for a free trade agreement between Quebec and European Union, stephen harper followed after by saying its probably agood idea.
-I had a chance to follow european News ,and i can tell you that all european countries are welcoming the entry of Canada in the free trade area with th european Union ,as Mr Sarkozy said ´the european union is an union of common cultures and not only GEO-position union)
-right after the entry of czech,hungary and poland in the EU , european officials run up to Canada (not the US ,not australia or NZ..) asking to romive visa requirement for those countries as they need to be treated the same way with other EU members.
Those are signs that the future of canada is becoming more and more linked with europe as a normal result of an over protectionism of the united states.
[23-05-2009,17:09]
[**.221.27.225]
QC4ever |
(in reply to: The US / Canada Border Future)
I wonder why it is that so many Canadians claim to want an open border with the US, the very country so many love to hate. Do they have any idea how much money it would take to have an open border? This country could never afford to make the upgrades necessary to comply with American standards (think every port of call, etc), and you can be sure the standards would be more strict than they even are today. Does Canada really want to be at the mercy of the US and its requirements?
I hear complaints every day about how much the US infiltrates Canadian culture, and to be sure those complaints are valid. Canada has struggled with its identity for a long time and it can´t be easy to live in the shadow of a more dominant country and retain your cultural autonomy. But further opening of the border to the US will only invite in more Americanization to an already struggling identity crisis, and that can´t be healthy for Canada. I would think Canadians would welcome the continued separation of the two countries, and I´d love to hear some Canadian feedback on that idea.
Proving residency is not a new idea between the two countries. The only difference now is instead of showing a drivers license you are required to show a passport. Far more Canadians own valid passports than do Americans, and I wonder how many people it will really affect. If you can afford your February trip to fly to Florida, you already own one, and if cross border shopping is your thing, the cost will make up for itself in a couple of trips to Target.
Richard, I have to respectfully disagree with the idea that showing a passport instead of a drivers license to pass between the separate countries of Canada and the United States is anything at all like East and West Germany, a single country that was forcibly torn apart during one of the most atrocious wars in history. I honestly do not see the link there. As for the open borders between European countries, I don´t know enough about the realities to comment. I do know that when I was a kid it was really fun to get cool stamps in my passport while traveling around Europe, and that border crossings are totally anticlimactic now! :) More seriously, I have a suspicion that the individual European countries have very deep rooted cultural identities acquired over far more centuries than either Canada or the US has yet seen, and are therefore less likely to lose as much of themselves as Canada is by opening borders. Still, even there the fear of cultural loss is an unfortunate reality, though how much of that has occurred since 1989 I don´t know.
Sharon: I know my rant probably sounded pretty harsh, but I think it stems more from a new self awareness than directly from any struggles we might be having here. The fact that there is so much anti-Americanism is something we knew we would likely face, so while it´s not exactly a shock it is deep rooted and surprisingly loud. Sometimes even silence can be deafening.
[23-05-2009,18:00]
[**.252.115.196]
wannabecanadian |
(in reply to: The US / Canada Border Future)
yes, your rant sounded harsh.
[23-05-2009,18:10]
[***.20.116.15]
Sharon |
(in reply to: The US / Canada Border Future)
wow...mixed reactions.
i saw the article few days ago already, i gotta say it´s not a shocker but it´s somewhat a surprise.
the surprise in this is that this move came almost 8 years after 9/11. it would have been more understandable if it came right after the attack...but now? meaning that the so-called sleeper cells could have been moving freely across the border for the last 8 years and maybe plotting.
having lived in the states for quite some time,i can say that americans do not necessarily trust everyone out there, so it´s normal that the US tries to control the border as much as possible.
it´s a bit of a slap to canadians and the immigration in canada, the US says it does not feel comfortable with immigrants landing in Canada from certain parts of the world. ironically many people in the US are illegal, went to the states illegally, live illegally, do business illegally, trade weapons...drugs..all kinds of things that are not "safe" for anyone.
but anyway how hard is it for people to get a passport or the "special" driver´s licence right?
People in Europe might seem to be moving freely but i was told in France for example police frequently ask people for IDs, so the control is always there.
[23-05-2009,18:27]
[**.226.124.167]
Anonymous |
(in reply to: The US / Canada Border Future)
All countries have the right to control their border; US Canada anyone......
If you don´t like it then just don´t go...as simple as that. Something similar to a popular advice to the thousands of unhappy complaining immigrants in Canada: don´t like it? Then go home? Why rant? No body is forcing you to be here...
Comparing US/Canada and the European countries aren´t the exact same. NOT all European countries have the luxury to enjoy the open border policy.
Mexico doesn´t need passport, US does need. True. Then India/Pak/Bd. are even more rude. They even require visa to visit them in your passport (even for the Americans). USA at least doesn´t need that from the Canadians.
Bottom line is, like Marco asked, if your personal information is gathered..you have to show your passport then what´s so wrong? If you are clean then why bother? Let them burn their own money for increasing security...that at least will employ some folks.
Wannabe,
I realize exactly what you are saying as I felt the similar felings once. When I first moved here I was totally surprized to see the open anti-americanism in Canada. My impression was US/Canada are the best friends on the world and respect each other greatly as I never recall any American speaks bad about Canada or the Canadians. All Americans I talked greatly appreciate Canada. But after landing in Canada I found that Canadians in general don´t like talking anything good about Amercia and it is wise not to. Their media also have a tendency to focus the negatives of the US.
About the hardship of being in the Canadian mainstream; Though my frustration at that time was mostly based on job. Now with a good job I started to feel as a part of the maintstream soceity though it is too early to conclude, but at least now I´m optimistic.
We returned last night driving our car. There was a sweat surprise for us in the Windsor border after an hour waiting in the long queue. As returning residents, we are also entitled to bring whatever we wish like a new immigrant tax free. Even our car (just $204 was charged). This wil be valid only if you can establish that you were out of Canada for over an year.
[24-05-2009,02:20]
[**.237.84.45]
DC_RC |
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