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| Subject: To DC_RC |
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Hi there DC_RC. Wondering if your move to GTA was completed and went well. Also if based on your latest impressions there you plan on staying in GTA long-term. Or if your opinion is the same and only temporary there.
London/Sarnia is now on the list here this time - it seems like it´s taking forever to make a transition. I think the professional job situation is still generally pretty awful, but not much better down here.
With Obama´s health care reform with the "public option", TV commercials here are filled with how terrible Canada health care is and if we don´t watch out we´ll get the same thing. The American insurance lobby and rightwing interest groups are mobilized and in full action trying to scare the daylights out of everyone.
One constant commercial every night is of a Canadian woman telling the TV audience she would have died waiting there for brain surgery and coming down here saved her life. I find that hard to believe. I wonder how many of the 47 million here without insurance had this same problem and died for lack of care, with no one knowing. Maybe your opinion on this topic has chganged.
[21-07-2009,19:19]
[***.131.12.0]
Richard |
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(in reply to: To DC_RC)
In our area, our local clinic recently closed with no notice because of a lack of doctors. In town (SJ), the hospital has on staff 8 of the required 22 emergency room doctors. That´s 8 emergency doctors TOTAL, for an area with 100,000 people and more since regional clinics are closing. We have lived here for a year and there is no hope of getting a family practitioner for years to come.
I know health care is important to you Richard, and believe me, it is to us too. I don´t want to be the grey cloud in your dream of the perfection of universal health care, but think about the realities. When a province can´t afford to fund it (and remember, Ontario is a have-not province now), cuts must be made. That means people wait longer, there are fewer services available, and people get desperate.
Yes, a lot of people go to the States for care. They pay out of pocket for surgeries or procedures denied to them here. No, it is not commonplace, but everyone has stories.
For many reasons, Americans have a very difficult time adjusting to the system here, and it would never work south of the border. I am as hopeful as anyone that Obama gets real health care reform through but the Canadian model will not be the solution. The two countries have very different needs and offerings, and very different expectations.
Just as in the States and everywhere else, there are communities with better health care available than others. But, New Brunswick is not alone in its struggle and as the provincial governments gets squeezed, care is affected everywhere. Keep in mind it is the provinces that manage health care, not the federal government; that was a surprise to us. As in the States, a community with a medical school is always a good bet for excellent care.
Glad to hear you are still thinking the London area Richard. Have you taken your summer research trip there yet?
[22-07-2009,08:11]
[**.252.115.196]
wannabecanadian |
(in reply to: To DC_RC)
WANNABE
YOU OR ANYONE ELSE CAN NOT COMPARE A SMALL CENTRE (VILLAGE) TO A MAJOR COSMOPOLITAN AREA WHEN IT COMES TO HEALTH CARE AND ACCESSIBILITY OF DOCTORS.
Comparing Ontario to any Maritime Province is laughable.
One must ask themselves these questions.
Brand new YOUNG Doctor just graduated needs to get certified and some experience. Should he/she go to the big city or small town in the middle of nowhere to gain that experience?
Young Doctor looking for a potential partner should they work in a small town or a Major Cosmopolitan area?
Young Doctor wants an exciting life should they move to small town or major metropolitan area.
In my town (Toronto) we have the number four rated Cancer Hospital in the world.
In my town (Toronto) we have the world renown "Sick Kids Hospital".
In my Town I see no shortage of Doctors and oh I supposedly live in a HAVE NOT Province.
Ontario is cutting Health Care, NEWS TO ME! Fewer services available in Ontario, LOL
When due to any lack of space anyone is sent to the states the province pays for all health care needs. Nobody pays out of pocket for surgeries, come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Americans have different Health Care Needs? I guess a Heart Attack down there requires different treatment!
Provinces Manage Health Care in conjunction with the Federal Government. All professions are regulated by each province all accept Immigration Consultants! R not Doctors in the States regulated by each individual State?
If anyone is involved in an accident anywhere in the world the Provincial Health Care Insurance Plan pays for emergency care or until totally recovered which ever would be most effective.
Silly talk, I suppose smoking cigarettes does not cause lung cancer!
Americans need different Health Care, WHY?
The Canadian Model, The Danish Model, The French etc. would all not work in USA, WHY?
Roy
www.cvimmigration.com
[22-07-2009,08:58]
[**.15.48.152]
Roy |
(in reply to: To DC_RC)
Roy, don´t get all defensive on me. I´m not comparing my town and Toronto; in fact I clearly state that health care differs around the country (like it does everywhere). I do take exception to the idea that NB is completely different than the rest of Canada when I read article after article about hospital closings (Montreal), the lack of specialty equipment, and the long wait times--and for that matter, I take exception to the suggestion that the maritime provinces don´t count. Where I live is no different than any other small town, just as small towns across the US are similar to each other in what they can offer. Yes, in Toronto they have the very wonderful Sick Kids Hospital, but outside Toronto the rest of the country isn´t so fortunate.
Please don´t patronize me when I am here to help and offer my own experiences, just as you are. Don´t insist that "no one" goes to the US for procedures that are denied to them here when in fact they do--I´ve heard so many stories it´s unbelievable. Just as my mother orders her prescriptions from Winnipeg because they cost half the price as they do in the US, it is an unfortunate reality that many Canadians go across the border for health care needs that aren´t being met at home. It´s a two way street and I have never once made the US system to sound superior. Clearly there are enormous problems with both systems and to flatly deny that truth is simply hiding your head in the sand.
The Canadian health care system wouldn´t work or be accepted in the US for a variety of reasons and I´m not going to get into it here. That said, I am a big believer in some sort of universal health care, that we all have a responsibility to each other to ensure that we are taken care of whether it be publicly or privately financed or a combination of both (the more realistic option in my opinion for both countries).
Roy, you should know me well enough after all these years to know that I am a reasonable person. I know that health care is tremendously important to Richard, and I understand his concerns and interests because I felt very much the same way when we immigrated. All I can do is offer up what I´ve seen in the past year and hope that future immigrants can balance out the various bits of information that they receive with their own needs and perspectives.
It is one thing to live where you grew up, to understand a system and have your place already secure in that system. To have your family doctor in place, to have access to another physician if yours retires or otherwise leaves, to understand the various levels of care available (clinics, ER, urgent care clinics, call in opportunities, etc). It is quite another--and I know you know this from your experience--to come in new, with no prospect of a family doctor, no hope of your child seeing a pediatrician, and a very real fear that the system you find yourself in simply cannot provide for your family should something terrible happen. Of course in Toronto that transition isn´t nearly as difficult as it is here.
Just as New Brunswick isn´t a complete picture of the entire country, neither is Toronto or Vancouver. More of the country is made up of small, rural communities and they do add to the whole just as much as the metropolitan areas do. They can´t simply be discounted.
[22-07-2009,11:20]
[**.252.115.196]
wannabecanadian |
(in reply to: To DC_RC)
It is different in every town. In Fort McMurray the "routine" health care is decent but if specialized care is needed more likely will happen either in Edmonton or Calgary.
Living in a semi or rural area has a price.
No different than in the US though.
Here in Kelowna, health care is actually really good. The main reason is that this place is full of fosiles that are either retired or in need of a better climate.
However, if you need a major surgery they will send you to Vancouver.
Again... big city = better facilities.
Cheers,
Bill
[22-07-2009,12:09]
[***.75.247.138]
Bill |
(in reply to: To DC_RC)
Richard,
I posted something in Roy´s "ON isn´t a Haven´t State" then saw your post, so some paste from there as it is relevant to your questions.
“I was considering to settle in BC in the near future, but what I´m learning about Canadian economy doesn´t give me much encouragement for the Canadian west. At least for my profession, ON is always the hot spot, probably even the best in the North America. I hear many stories (even couple of my co-workers)) who returned to ON from the west.
I don´t care much for authentic food or multi-culture, sadly have to forget about the lovely nature, but first thing I´ve to have a good job in my field.”
Our settlement is now finished. It went OK, not bad. Most satisfaction is the psychological change that I feel in my mind. Earlier, frankly the name Canada first used to remind me a land who refused to give me a fair chance. That was enough to frustrate you till your death. Incidentally I returned with a good job for some reasons. There are millions who never return possess this feeling for ever.
Honestly, I haven´t decided my mind yet, the attraction of US is still much higher for both of us. However, this time I won´t go to the US just with any job. At least in ON I don’t have to worry about jobs ever. It´ll be interesting to see how US looks like after 2 years. One key attraction of US is always the low living cost there (of course forgetting about the health cost in a "in case" scenario. Also we always miss the freedom and flexibility of the US life. Particularly GTA isn’t our place to settle. Little example may be here the malls are closed after 6 on the weekends, maintaining a car is a huge cost...buying a good home will be still a long dream for us even with a job of considerably high salary in Canada . I’ve to stuck in traffic in day time (just high traffic) and surprisingly even at the midnight for construction on the freeway. In the weekends now we forget to go out in the parks, crowd is just way too much. Last Sunday night it took us 2.5 hrs to get in home from Niagra (1 hr net late, starting from there at 10 PM)). Tourism is also very expensive and limited. Though for sure I wouldn’t blame Canada for these.
London is always a place that we dream. Don’t know about Polish particularly, but I know that considering it’s size London has a very good number of all Asian ethnic restaurants.
About healthcare my stand is like the past. It is very close to what Wannabe thinks. My simple desire from a good healthcare system is I want to pay out of my pocket, but don’t want to suffer. I’m feeling the Canadian system better simply because now I don’t have any pay cut for health.
I also firmly believe that US should consider European nations like France as the example. A system can’t be great which only offers the better facilities for a particular province only. About ON particular, one of my freind’s wife 5 months pregnant landed as a new immigrant, he has to call 47 doctors to finally have someone. I have very little experience in healthcare in both side, so can’t compare personally. It may sound stupid, but with a good health and still at my mid 30s I don’t give much thought to this as a deciding issue.
Don’t know whether you heard or not, I heard from one of my friend is Australia that they are considering to adopt a paid insurance system like the US one instead of the universal one.
[22-07-2009,14:31]
[***.13.12.94]
DC_RC |
(in reply to: To DC_RC)
Wannabe, Roy, Bill, DC_RC, I find your opinions valuable and well thought out, and was hoping you would all chime in, along with any other viewers of this forum. The issue is important not only to me but most Americans, as the health system is in crisis down here. #1 cause of personal bankruptcy, and with the ecomomic crisis and rising unemployment, it´s become a hot topic on its own. Obama is giving a major television national address on this issue tonight.
What´s baked my beans (as they say in these parts) are the mean-spirited attacks on Canada as their solution. They don´t present the facts accuartely in their distortions. I may disagree with you, wannabe, on some of this, I know.
It seems to me the Europeans have solved this with Single Payer, along with Canada. But you bring that up here (it´s not even on the table as an option) and it gets labeled as socialism/communism. There´s a proposed "public option" in the legislation that tries to come close.
I´m still reading through all the comments.
[22-07-2009,16:57]
[***.131.12.0]
Richard |
(in reply to: To DC_RC)
Richard
I loved that documentary SICKO when the American lost two fingers while doing some home renovations and had to choose which one to sew back on because he could not afford to sew on both his fingers he had just lost.
What gets me is living in a Have Not province the movie shows a Doctor in small Town London who had just sewn on a mans complete hand and there was no issue of that guy having to pay or wait to be dealt with.
Toronto has the Herbie fund which pays for foreigners to get operated on at Sick Kids Hospital. Herbie was a kid who needed treatment I believe from the States.
It is only common sense that a YOUNG Doctor will want to study under the best and will want to be busy. Only a few will want the quite life of sailing or skiing without traveling to that location. They will want to mate with other professionals and party with still others.
Most of those things can not be found in a maller community.
Roy
www.cvimmigration.com
[22-07-2009,17:38]
[**.15.48.152]
Roy |
(in reply to: To DC_RC)
Wannabe
After Tall Ship 2000 we stayed in Halifax to start a new life. Huge Mistake!
No health care provider, bad attitude towards new comers and I´m Canadian, white etc.. Most of the malls had plenty of retail space available, most citizens were seniors or students at University with no money.
Possibly my personal experience was what got me down.
Roy
www.cvimmigration.com
[22-07-2009,17:46]
[**.15.48.152]
Roy |
(in reply to: To DC_RC)
Wannabe,
Just challenging the asumption that Americans would never adjust to the Canadian model. Isn´t that what people back in the 30´s and 40´s said about Social Security and Medicare? It was too considered socialist, and Americans are too individualistic. But most Americans can´t imagine life without those systems now. And down here we somehow already have a national singlke payer health care system with government run hospitals and doctors on governemnt salaries... the VA. And no one´s saying veterans can´t adjust to this model.
Also to answer your question, yes research into these areas will be next week. Can you let us know your plans... is relocation in the works, or decided to stay in NB? From your comments, the Maritimes offer a lot of beauty and serenty that many of us find missing in big city life. This is something DC_RC will agree with. But I sincerely hope it works out up there after all.
DC, thanks for the detailed reply. Sounds like you haven´t made up your mind yet about GTA or even Canada itself. I am surpised that you find more opportunities in your field in Canada than the States. Normally I´d expect the other way around. Housing and overall cost of living is always frustrating for anyone moving from south of the border to there. Why not check out Guelph? I thought it was the best of both worlds, and within commute range of almost anywhere in GTA.
Australia considering a private system like U.S.?... that´s shocking. They must be alowing a system with both options. As far as being 30 and not so concerned,I think car accidents and similar situations don´t discrimate about age, especially when down here and unemployed.
Roy, I couldn´t agree more about SICKO. Michale Moore is a big advocate of your sustem up there. In that movie, he showed how the British NHS system rewards their providers with incentives if their patients stay health and do not need to came back. Here, United HealthCare, Concordia, WellPoint, and other insurers reward their analsyts for denying care, as it boosts the bottom line. Incredible.
Take a look at this in yesterday´s paper here:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-tue-problem-insurance-0721jul21,0,5666288.column
Bill, I wonder if something major happened to someone there (i.e., recent major fire), if AB care covers transport to a major city centers with facilities specializing in that field.
I´m not as obsessed with this topic as many think. But you´ll see if you read the news from down here (i.e., CNN, MSNBC, etc. it is with many here now, with the promises of the new admninistration that the people who elected him really wanted.
[22-07-2009,19:12]
[***.131.12.0]
Richard |
(in reply to: To DC_RC)
Richard: I absolutely support some form of universal health coverage in the US, and it is as a big a concern for us as it is for you. I just read a fascinating article about health care in Europe and around the world (but no matter how many searches I do, I can´t remember where I read it or I´d send you the link) and I was surprised to find that many nations that I had thought had a fully government run system like Canada actually offer either a public/private split, a forced private plan (this was Switzerland as I recall, a plan like Massachusetts is currently trying out), or other tailored plans that ultimately cover (at least nearly) everyone but don´t necessarily rely solely on the government.
I think there is a solution for the US but I don´t think it will be a fully government run system. The VA, after all, is hardly a model establishment and thus doesn´t make a good example to throw at the conservatives. I am hopeful for some combination of public and private financing, and that common sense and compassion will finally gain a stronghold (from what I read, the abortion issue is one of the big deal breakers for current plans being thrown out there--ack!).
I just saw an article (a blog, I think)in the Globe and Mail about how unsustainable the current system is here in Canada, that health costs are soaring and are literally bankrupting the provinces and how it will only get worse to the point that something will finally have to be done about it. It made me wonder how much longer Canadians will put up with the status quo (just as I wonder how Americans have put up with our failed system).
Health care is clearly a hot topic around here, but of course there are many other considerations that you are taking into account. I will look forward to hearing about your trip to London and the impressions that you have.
It´s funny that summertime always makes me think of southern Ontario; it´s in the many memories of driving through the countryside in the heat listening to Blue Rodeo and Sarah Harmer, who both somehow symbolize "Canada" to me (just as Natalie MacMaster captures the essence of Nova Scotia, and a certain random CD will always feel like PEI in the rain, no matter where I am). It´s the granite and cool greenish waters of Lake Huron and camping under the pine trees; the everything of Toronto through the haze of Labatts Blue. So I am envious of your road trip and hope you´ll share your experiences with us.
[22-07-2009,20:20]
[**.252.115.196]
wannabecanadian |
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