Canada Immigration Forum (discussion group)            
Subject: DOCTOR #2
  Tue Jul 20, 8:59 AM
SASKATCHEWAN (CBC) - A British doctor with a medical degree from Oxford University says he is leaving Canada frustrated and disillusioned after red tape kept him from applying for a residency position in B.C.

"There is no way I would advise any doctor in England to set foot in this country and to try to do what I did," said Dr. Ashish Marwaha.
After months of preparation, Marwaha missed this year´s residency application deadlines because his immigration paperwork was delayed in the mail.
"It was actually in the mail on its way," he said of the proof of his permanent resident status. "And I could not apply for a job without this piece of paper."
Marwaha came to B.C. in August 2008 to do diabetes research at the Child and Family Research Institute in Vancouver. He wanted to stay and work as a pediatrician, a specialty in which there is a shortage in B.C.
He said he passed all the exams to qualify for a residency the next step in the training he needs to practise and he has excellent recommendations from Canadian doctors.
"I´m a valuable commodity in England," he said, "But I gave myself two years to stay in Canada and try to get through all the bureaucracy and apply for a job. I thought that would be plenty of time, but I was thwarted at the last hurdle."
After living in Canada for a year, as required, Marwaha applied for permanent resident status, which he also needed to qualify for the post-graduate training positions open to foreign-trained doctors.
Because he has a Canadian spouse, his application was approved by Citizenship and Immigration Canada in the spousal category.
The approval took six months, however. And the letter confirming the approval, dated Feb. 25, didn´t arrive until April too late for this year´s application deadlines.
"Canada is, hands down, the hardest place in the world to get a job as a medical resident," Marwaha said.
His permanent resident card also got lost, he said. It was mailed in June but still hasn´t arrived.
Immigration Minister Jason Kenney was not available to talk about the delays, but a spokesperson for his department suggested nothing was wrong. "We have looked into the case and are satisfied it was processed within our normal time frames (of six to twelve months)."
Marwaha said he is heading back to the U.K., reluctantly, for a residency at Oxford but first wanted to speak out about the obstacles he and other foreign-trained doctors face in B.C.
"I´ve not heard a single positive story of an international medical graduate from another country like England coming to Canada and being successful," he said.
Among the frustrations: medical school graduates must live in Canada and obtain permanent resident status to apply for positions in B.C. And unlike Marwaha, most can´t qualify for status until they have a job, he said.
"What they are saying to you is, ´You can be a doctor here. Just give up your job in your home country. Come here. Live for a year with no job then maybe you can apply.´"
Those who get over that obstacle face another: most residency positions aren´t open to foreign-trained doctors.
In B.C., only 18 positions, or six per cent of all spots, are reserved for them. Canadian graduates get first crack at the rest. Foreign-trained candidates can apply in a second application round, if there are any positions left.
Marwaha thinks the best candidates should get the jobs no matter where they went to school. This is the way it works in the U.S., he said.
"We cannot directly compete with the students who graduated in Canada and that just seems absurd to me," he said. "It´s discrimination and being discriminated against is not a nice feeling."
The registrar of the College of Physicians and Surgeons of B.C. said Canadian-trained doctors get priority for residency spots because they´ve invested in their education here.
Dr. Heidi Oetter also acknowledged there are few, if any, positions left over for foreign-trained doctors beyond the 18 set aside for them.
"Governments can only afford to fund so many positions," she said. "And generally the number of positions in Canada roughly matches the number of people who graduate from medical school."
She estimated B.C. needs 10 to 20 more residency places to help meet the need for 300 new doctors a year. Each position costs the province hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, she said.
Oetter defended the requirement that applicants prove they have lived in the province at least 12 months. "This helps to ensure that successful candidates are committed to staying and practising in British Columbia once they´ve completed the program."
Marwaha predicts the strained health-care system will worsen if much more isn´t done to fill the shortages within certain specialties.
"The system will have to come to a breaking point," he said. "And you know what? People are going to have to die because of lapses in the systems."
When public health care in the U.K. reached a crisis point, the government made radical changes, said Marwaha, who doubts he´ll return to B.C. after his residency at Oxford.
"What Canada needs to do is learn from the rest of the world."


Cameron Duncan
Sharon and Roy (in reply to: DOCTOR #2)
Any comments you want to make? I am sure that wanna bee immigrants would be interested in this type of stories.
(in reply to: DOCTOR #2)
if you read my comments to our doctor friend you would not that I pretty much said the exact same thing only without the drama attached. It is not news, it is not a secret, in fact... it spells it all out very clearly on the CIC website.

That our friend has waiting until now to do his homework is astonishing.

(in reply to: DOCTOR #2)
I would call MONOPOLY. It is not as simple as BUREAUCRACY. Stupid monopoly medical system, and yet they claim superirity in health care compared to Europe ..hahahhahahhaha. I came from Europe/ and I am here now because of the heart and love.
My cousin who is a specialist doctor came here because his wife is a canadian nurse. He, and family, left back to England with one way ticket.

In a side note: I wonder why Vitorelli & sharon like to fight each other in my thread. Why can´t the moderator ban both of them.

Cameron Duncan
Foreign Trained Doctors (in reply to: DOCTOR #2)
Dear Dr. Ashish Marwaha: I am sorry to hear that it took you two years to receive your Residency documents. Your spousal application should have been submitted either before you came to Canada or as soon as you landed (processing time is approx.6-12 mths), another option was the BC PNP programme or the Skilled Worker Category - both of these options would have taken longer than a Spousal application. It is important for professionals to know what their options are before migrating as this will help to reduce a lot of frustration..
I agree that the regulatory licensing can be a bit frustrating..again foreign nationals need to ensure they find out what the requirements are before moving here.

Nadine Mahabeer
(in reply to: DOCTOR #2)

I mean I would call the stupid selfish HEALTH-CARE REGULATORS as Monopoly

Cameron Duncan
Why Sharon and I fight? (in reply to: DOCTOR #2)
I do not mean to fight with Sharon. I just disagree with her at times. I think that she is arrogant but she is also helpful to many people. This forum serves me as a "vent out" therapy .
COngratulations (in reply to: DOCTOR #2)
Mr DR: COngratulations for seeing quickly thru things of what Canada is really about. Publicity, publicity and more publicity. Laws made to protect the born canadian and immigrant money grab.
What you have experienced works at so many different levels in this country.

(in reply to: DOCTOR #2)
the college of physicians and surgeons are not my favourite governing body but I understand their point.(the doctor problem is not about the government it is about the College).

They want to make sure that doctors credentials are legitimate, and are up to Canadian standards before they allow someone to treat Canadian residents.

Given you can buy a degree online - I am not disappointed with that choice. It should be easier but it´s not and needs to change BUT given that doctors are generally playing with someone´s life, I am quite glad they are cautious.

(in reply to: DOCTOR #2)
Canada - Hypocrite, hidden discrimination.
I am an affluent citizen, I left Canada since Canada doesn´t offer respectable income for most immigrants. I am lucky to have the fund and courage to start over in my own native country. Many immigrants have to endure living in the poverty line and have no choice of returning home due to shame or limited fund. For those who can only say but they don´t experience it, shut the hell up. You KNOW nothing. What you know is only the blind patriotism, without seeing the facts that really happen.

(in reply to: DOCTOR #2)
if you were an affluent citizen... why the hell did you want to leave in the first place? What did you expect?