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| Subject: Marrriage Fraud |
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To All
My morning Rant
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/10/29/pol-marriage-fraud.html
Jason Kenney the Immigration Minister will introduce ill thought out policy changes regarding Spousal Sponsorship applications. What he can´t see is that his own Visa Officers are the cause of any Marriage of Convenience MOC.
Yup the Visa Officer´s are the problem!
How many Canadian to Canadian marriages last for five years? Ridiculous. Fix the problem at the source!
Here is some example of questions asked by Visa Officers.
-- When did your relationship become one of a romantic nature?
What is romantic to one may not be to another. A walk on the beach at sunset while holding hands should be romantic. If either one ruined their favorite shoes it might not be a happy memory. *** If the Visa Officer wants to know when and where the married couple had sexual intercourse for the first time, why not ask that straightforward question? They both better know the answer and the actual time!
-- What is the cost of living for a couple to live together in Canada?
The cost of living in Canada for any couple depends on so many variables it is a ridiculous question. Living in a major city like Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal would cost much more instead of some small town. One spousal applicant client had a place to live with family for free, employment with another family member in a restaurant where he could eat, within easily walking distance to work. Houses in that town cost $35,000.00 not $400,000.00 which is the average price in Toronto. When he replied he did not know the cost of living in Canada he was refused.
*** Why not ask how much will it cost you and your partner to live in the town you selected and what plans have you for employment. Will you need another car? How much does a car cost?
-- Which side of the bed do you sleep on when sleeping in the same bed with your partner?
*** Is that looking at the bed from the foot of the bed or the head of the bed? Makes a HUGE difference.
NOW!
What happens when CIC/CBSA thinks that someone has entered into a MOC Marriage of Convenience showing that the PR got a divorce soon after arrival and is now sponsoring another.
1. An investigation is started. Sometimes the original Sponsor is questioned and they do not have to answer any questions. Sometimes the PR receives a letter to provide evidence of why their divorce occurred so soon after they got landed.
2. If there is still suspicions the PR maybe (normally) called into a meeting with the Ministers Delegate who will ask questions of the sponsored person PR and ask them to provide evidence to support that they did not enter a MOC. At the end of the interview the Ministers Delegate will hand the PR a 44 report listing the allegations against them regardless of the way they answered the questions or the evidence they presented.
3. The file will then be sent to a Supervisor to make a decision as to whether or not to proceed with an Admissibility Hearing where the PR could be ordered deported. He/She has to decide to risk going to a hearing and NOT proving their case that a MOC occured.
4. The Immigration Division would then schedule an Admissibility Hearing which could easily take two sittings where witnesses can be called to prove they are not in violation of the Immigration Act by entering into a MOC. If the ID finds that the PR is described (guilty) there is an automatic right of appeal to the Immigration Division.
5. After probably two years the PR accused of a MOC will be called to a scheduling hearing to schedule a date 4-5 months further along. If there is a need for an interpreter it will definitely take two sittings with a resumption date of three or four months after the initial hearing date. The Immigration Appeal Division can take into account H&C factors for the reason they acted in the way they did.
6. If the appeal is refused it could take several more years if the PR has no valid travel document and his country of citizenship will not issue a passport.
TOTAL PROCESSING TIME FROM THE START OF THE INVESTIGATION UNTIL THE ACTUAL REMOVAL OF THE FORMER PR COULD TAKE SEVEN YEARS!
Now how many get WRONGLY accused of a MOC with little or no evidence. Well this year I have dealt with plenty and not one has been sent to an admissibility hearing.
What all should know is that if CBSA/CIC decide not to proceed to an admissibility hearing they do not say sorry. They put a note on file that there is insufficient evidence to proceed to an admissibility hearing. Plus their new spousal sponsorship applications of their new spouse and their citizenship application if any are held up for ever.
Jason Kenney FIX the problem at the source.
Better questioning of Spousal Applicants should expose most BOGUS marriages.
Roy
cvimmigration.com
[29-10-2011,09:44]
[***.112.20.207]
Roy |
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(in reply to: Marrriage Fraud)
Is there a comparison somewhere that shows how Australia, Sweden, UK,US, Germany and France handle Spousal Applications?
What do they do different and what could we do similar to reduce the wait and the fraud. Perhaps it means the conditional PR - I don´t know.
Yes, the Canadian-Canadian divorce rate is high but for the most part, the ramifications of that break up have no implication to the government. Unfortunately, Immigration divorces often do.
[29-10-2011,14:19]
[**.156.43.208]
Sharon |
(in reply to: Marrriage Fraud)
(1) Roy, What kind of questions should be asked in order to expose MOC??? Sure there are some questions which sound stupid but you are just picking those exceptions....Maybe CIC should ask your opinion what questions to ask??? You expect by asking questions you can expose MOC??? Problem is immigration consultant (Roy included) often anticipate those questions and advise their client how to answer them!!! By anticipating questions and advising clients how to answer them, YOU are actually encouraging people how to answer those questions the immigration officers want to hear. YOU are making their jobs more difficult!!!
Scammers can easily find those questions that will be asked on the web and thus know how to answer them correctly.
Maybe Roy can post some questions here and I will attempt to answer them to see if you can tell whether I am scamming or not... Please post some questions Roy.
(2) Investigation takes time and resources PERIOD. If you are the head of CBSA and there are many unsolved murder cases or serious crime and hiring and training more people is not an option because it need more money and Roy and the rest of the Canadian are already fed up paying more taxes to do that. What would you do?????? Put Jason Kennedy to be in charge of CBSA and he would probably come up with other excuses for not investigating fraud marriage.
I suspect it took so long because they want to be absolutely sure that the marriage is indeed fraud and they are lacking of resources in their investigation...
Conclusion.... it is impossible to spot MOC just by asking questions because people LIE or they will know the correct answer once those questions are posted on the web. Roy again is showing his naivety and I think the reason why MOC is possible mainly because immigration consultants (possibly Roy included) are advising their clients how to answer those questions. Do you think they care whether the marriage of their is genuine? Probably not.
[30-10-2011,05:32]
[**.247.203.187]
SG |
(in reply to: Marrriage Fraud)
The cost of asking quality questions upfront is far less than waiting until they find someone they think entered into a marriage of convenience. MOC
Like I said look at the Federal Court decision Chavez vs MCI
I DO NOT THINK FEDERAL COURT JUDGE HOARE IS NAIVE!
The genuineness of the marriage is based on a number of factors.
They are not identical in every appeal as the genuineness can be affected by any number of different factors in each appeal. They can include, but are not limited to,
such factors as the intent of the parties to the marriage, the length of the relationship,
the amount of time spent together,
conduct at the time of meeting,
at the time of an engagement and/or the wedding,
behaviour subsequent to a wedding,
the level of knowledge of each other’s relationship
histories,
level of continuing contact and communication,
the provision of financial support,
the knowledge of and sharing of responsibility for the care of children brought into the marriage,
the knowledge of and contact with extended families of the parties,
as well as the level of knowledge of each other’s daily lives.
SG - DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT EACH COUPLE WHICH GETS MARRIED THAT THEY ALL HAVE THE SAME RELATIONSHIP? THAT VISA OFFICERS REVIEWING THE FILE CAN´T FIND ONE DISCREPANCY?
In each set of forms there are always potential questions that can prove or disprove any relationship. Questions about In-Laws, names of future children, daily routines, marks scars and tattoos and when and how obtained. Plus everything that Judge Hoare mentioned.
What sponsor in a genuine marriage would not make themselves available for a Skype or telephone interview on the same day the applicant was being interviewed?????
My point is why punish everyone for the crimes of a few?
Regarding your points SG.
1. When an Applicant and Sponsor are being interviewed their stress level is increased and those in bogus relationships are more easily spotted. No amount of preparation by anyone can prevent either party from answering quality questions incorrectly. The issue is in the details.
2. Those conducting the interview & investigation never see the final result nor do they have time to track the files process.
My concern is the cost of the Investigation of MOC´s and the futility of the Investigation. Especially when H&C factors can be used to keep the violator in the country.
Now marriages of convenience are caught and many sponsors do not even file an appeal. Others file an appeal and when the sponsor gets an ADR it is crystal clear that the marriage is a MOC they withdraw their appeal at that stage. See IAD seminar Hearings Officer K. Foreman comments.
Have I represented a client at a Full Spousal Appeal where it became very evident it was a MOC? YES. Was I happy about that, NO. That is when you sit down and stop asking questions. The IAD member refused from the bench commenting that the appellant had us all fooled but calling the applicant due to changes in regulation four stopped the MOC from being approved.
Not one Sponsor has ever been charged with entering into a MOC. WHY NOT?
Most Minister Counsels will state the same, when a marriage application appears to require an interview conduct the interview with BOTH the applicant and sponsor. Do it well and the chances that persons trying to enter into Canada with a MOC will be greatly reduced.
Roy
cvimmigration.com
[30-10-2011,08:19]
[***.206.164.200]
Roy |
Marriage Fraud (in reply to: Marrriage Fraud)
I am born and brought up in India. My wife is an Indian born and brought up in Canada. She is a Canadian Citizen. We got married 6 months back. Our marriage happened in India. Our plan was to settle in Canada after Marriage. We lived together in India only for 12 days. She went back to Canada after that. In those 12 days the life with her was horrible. In that 12 days I understood that she is a flirt and she is still continuing affair with her boy friend even after marriage. I decided not to live with her. So dropped the plan to migrate to Canada. But changed my mind after too much pressure from my parents and her parents. According to my parents she will become honest and good once I reach Canada & start living with her. If she is still continuing her affairs I can drop her after reaching Canada.
I too felt it reasonable. I felt I have to give her a Chance to correct herself.
I decided to leave my job in India and migrate to Canada. Now I am confused after reading your forum.
I think if I come to Canada and find her unfaithful I cannot leave her under the present situation. If I leave her she may give a marriage fraud compliant against me. Then I will be deported. I am not sure whether I will be able to live with her for 2-5 years. Because even now over phone we are always fighting and arguing.She is not willing to change.
My visa is about to get stamped. Please Advice. Should I migrate to Canada?Can I leave her if she is not faithful?
[06-11-2011,00:36]
[***.68.124.224]
George |
(in reply to: Marrriage Fraud)
do you want to be with your wife, or do you want a free ticket to Canada. If she is unfaithful... why would you want to be in a relationship with her? Will she change her ways? Your parents are not thinking straight - no, she will not.
If you want to use your marriage as an easy way to Canada and it is found out that the marriage was only for ´show´ you will lose your PR on the grounds of misrepresentation.
If the marriage is not honourable to YOU - stay where you are. Your family will recover from the shock.
[06-11-2011,02:11]
[**.156.43.208]
Sharon |
(in reply to: Marrriage Fraud)
George you are extremely stupid; your wife is not having sex with her bf or anyone else; if she is as uptight as you expect her to be, she couldn´t go out of house without you accompanying her, much less work. You have a very primitive understanding of human relations in West so it is best for you to leave her before you show up in Canada. Trust me, I have seen your type, forcing behavior on Canadian girls and eventually failing and either getting in jail or leaving. Just leave her while you are still in India.
[07-11-2011,17:18]
[***.202.41.245]
Lulz |
victim of fraud marriage (in reply to: Marrriage Fraud)
Hello sir my name Maninder Bains I live w my parents in surrey bc our address is 8042 123 st v3w 8p8 Surrey bc canada we all landed immigrant from 21 feb 2006 my father Baldev Bains and Mother Harbinder Kaur Bains become citizen of Canada I am stil PR holder so in 2010 jan Month we went for India we went Punjab India for my marriage my parents and me chose a girl found a girl for me for marriage girl name Ramandeep Kaur Pooni now become Ramandeep Kaur Bains after married with me on feb 28 2010 we all spend time atleast 3 months in india after marriage we enjoy time we visit all historical and religious place in india and also going for honeymoon she loves me most I also love her she is ok with my parents I come back canada may 2010 for apply her paper to bring in canada I did all paper I went once again india in jan 2011 to bring her with me here it is my love for her I went india after I got news she got visa for canada I went alone in india that time no one with me I went for her so in 11 march 2011 we reach canada she is landed immigrant from march 11 2011 but soon week later on march 16. 2011 she and my cousin sister little fight we don´t say her anything police coming they found nothing against us she left home I say nothing I am not take action thought she come back one day I wait for her I still waiting for her but now march 7.2012 I got divorce paper from her sir this is fraud for me but sir I send letter to canadian border agaency in 2011 they reply me I got letter from them in sep 2011 they hold card my case in their hands but after that I don´t receive from them but I got divorce paper from her in march 2012 so this is not justice for I want justice from canadian law I always respect canadian law I love canada sir but I need justice my ph no is 604-761-4775 this my cell no my home ph no is 778-218-2994 my date birth is 28 jan 1982. 28/1/82 my wife date of birth is 27 aug 1987 27/8/1987
[07-05-2012,10:20]
[**.171.231.80]
Maninder Singh Bains |
(in reply to: Marrriage Fraud)
heh, doesn´t take seven years for someone to get deported. My ex just used me to come to Canada, and the CBSA deported her within three months.
[08-09-2012,15:01]
[**.68.96.58]
Bizznitch |
(in reply to: Marrriage Fraud)
I have a question regarding MOC. I am aware of a MOC and since I´ve been a victim of MOC and don´t want this to happen at all, I reported it to CBSA. I am aware that the girl married the guy for PR and I am aware that he doesn´t have any intention to stay in Canada after she gets her PR. He got unpaid leave from the place he used to work in his home country and he will go back to that country after she is finalized with PR. I am not sure how serious is CBSA with these reports. I faxed it. I just told them about what I knew but didn´t send any documentations along with that. Does anybody know how serious is CBSA about the reports and what will happen?
[10-09-2012,17:27]
[***.97.142.33]
Mamad |
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