Canadian "democracy part 2

Canada Immigration Forum (discussion group)


 
       
Subject: Canadian "democracy part 2
  Do you think 900 RRIF plus 550 processing fee is some revenue profit for government???

Come on? How much do you pay for auto insurance?
(My 86 TOYOTA corolla, basic third liability, no cover for my own car, $1210 a year. My car is only worth $500.It´s actually cheaper than Sharon´s place Richmond, less traffic here)
How much do you pay for lawyer?

How much do you earn if you get a let´s say 8-dollars/hour job in Canada?

What happen if you get sick and need operation in your home country? Who pays that? How much do you pay for your kids to go to school from grade 1 to grade 12 in your own country?

I hope everybody do an opportunity cost for yourself and future new life in Canada.

[08-03-2005,03:15]
[**.66.78.235]
Yijie
Yijie!!! (in reply to: Canadian "democracy part 2)
Yijie: count the big numbers, not just a fee per person and I am not just talking about fees..I am talking about taxes.
Do nor take it personal but before reading your write-ups I know exactly what you going to say... You are so corky

[08-03-2005,03:54]
[**.80.129.64]
Bitchy
Yijie!!! (in reply to: Canadian "democracy part 2)
Yijie: count the big numbers, not just a fee per person and I am not just talking about fees..I am talking about the taxes the government needs to keep supporting the generatioon of baby-boomers. .
Do nor take it personal but before reading your write-ups I know exactly what you are going to say... You are so corky

[08-03-2005,03:56]
[**.80.129.64]
Bitchy
(in reply to: Canadian "democracy part 2)

If you go to any developed country, you have to pay tax, if you don´t to pay the tax, stay your own third world country and don´t pay tax.
Why did you come to come to a civilized country ?

If you want to live in a civilized country you have to pay tax. Otherwise door is OPEN, go back to your own country, please don?t complain.

Thanks.

[08-03-2005,04:17]
[**.5.144.223]
Nobody
(in reply to: Canadian "democracy part 2)
Yijie,

Some of your statements are just based on your previous life in your own country. So many countries have medical insurance, free education even in university levels (which of course, is not the case in Canada) and so many other amenities. Let´s bring you an example. Getting sick in Canada is a nightmare for me and so many of my friends. My country is categorized as a third world country but medical services in there are by no means comparable with those offered in here. Just a few months ago, a friend of my friend died because he had to wait four months to see a specialist for his illness. He just passed away 8 days after the doctor diagnosed his cancer. So if you are very happy with what you have here, it may be you only, not everybody.

If someone comes from a third world country to here, an $8/hour job may be a great improvement in his/her life. You probably know what exactly I am saying. But this is not the case for so many people.

You may say no one invite you to Canada. That´s absolutely true. But for some people immigrating to Canada is not just moving from 0 to 1000. They might have already been in 800 or 900 but they want to improve. On the other hand, never forget that if Canadian government could not benefit from its immigration programs, it would have shut down all of them long time ago. I personally know so many PRs who brought thousands of dollars to Canada and spent all their money and finally moved back to their countries because they could not find a good job. Most immigrants are just cheap labour who work hard but not ask much. One more thing. Some people just *have to* move to Canada because their spouse is from here. Do you think an American, German, French, Swedish, ... who marries a Canadian gains very much?

Yijie, I strongly believe that Canadian government is making money of its immigration program. If they cannot do so it´s just because of their incapability and mismanagement. Maybe one day you become immigration minister and make the immigration programs more efficient and beneficial for Canada. Good luck.

[08-03-2005,04:20]
[**.69.127.117]
Anonymous
(in reply to: Canadian "democracy part 2)
Nobody:

As long as people like you are living in Canada I doubt if it´s true to call Canada a civilized country. If I hadn´t seen how nice most Canadian are, I might have thought everybody in Canada is like you. I´m really sorry for you.

[08-03-2005,04:43]
[***.12.253.66]
Anonymous
(in reply to: Canadian "democracy part 2)
Anonymous,
You are not disagreeing with me, you just took it personally.
Show me one developed country, where you don?t have to pay tax?
I?m in US and pay about 40% tax, do I like it? NO, I don?t like it.
But you have to pay tax. If we don?t pay tax how our system will work?
Do you want to live in a jungle? OK, then you don?t have to pay tax.
Not a bad idea.

Good luck.

[08-03-2005,05:11]
[**.5.144.223]
Nobody
(in reply to: Canadian "democracy part 2)
I couldn??t understand why people don??t use tax-deductible shelter? If you think you paid too much income tax, just please buy RRSP, send yourself to study. Or if you are too rich, please donate some tax-deductible donation to college. What??s wrong with Canadian taxation system?

Do you think revenue Canada charges unreasonable tax? No, I don??t think so. Generally speaking, this is not a corruption society. Tax revenue is our fellow citizen??s revenue too, without our tax, there will be no healthcare, affordable tuition fee and all social services.

For those people who complain paying too much tax, asked yourself, do you familiar with Canadian tax deduction regulation?


[08-03-2005,05:20]
[**.66.78.235]
Yijie
(in reply to: Canadian "democracy part 2)
Yijie,

so far as I am concerned there is a treaty between Chinese and Candian governments and according to that treaty you do not need to pay tax as long as you have Chinese citizenship. If I were you I just would go to the bed and take a rest!

[08-03-2005,05:37]
[***.12.253.66]
Anonymous
(in reply to: Canadian "democracy part 2)
People, I want for a second to get back to the original subject of this topic.

I don´t expect everyone to agree with me, but at least know the facts. The facts are:
before 2003, the quota for parental sponsorship was 20,000. Today, it´s 5,500.
The processing time was 6-12 months. Today, we don´t even know how long it is. In Canada, no single application hsa been processed since March 2004. In embassies, the backlog is between 3 and 10 years.

What we are asking from the government is very simple. First of all, stop lying to us. Tell us and new prospective immigrants that the parental sponsorship has been practically shut down.
For us, it´s like changing the rules in the middle of the game - exctly what they did in 2002 with independent immigration. If I knew when I applied that it would take 6-10 years and not 6-10 months, I doubt if I would come.
Do you really think it´s reasonable?

Now, few words about RRSP and taxes.
You are talking about civilized country. USA is a civilized country too, but look at their taxes. And they have way more ways to reduce them.
Most of Canadians are obsessed about RRSP. They don´t know 2 simple facts:
1.By contributing to RRSP, you don´t reduce your tax - you just delay it.
2.By having money in RRSP, you reduce your ability to get government pension by as much as $800 per month. That´s why the government is so anxious to convince people to contribute to RRSP - they want to reduce their (government) liability to you when you reach old age.

There is a better alternative to RRSP, which gives you better tax returns and better bottom line.
If anyone interested, we can open a new topic.

[08-03-2005,11:29]
[**.10.219.38]
prg
(in reply to: Canadian "democracy part 2)
1)there is no deal with China regarding taxes.

2)if Immigration was such a huge revenue source, why do we put another $380,000,000 of our tax dollars (that is federal only) into the program? Provincial programs are not calculated into this figure. I think the dollar figure quoted as revenue from fees is exagerated.

3)You are right, immigration is a win/win situation.

4) the original point of the thread was to protest Canada´s treatment of those wanting to sponsor their parents. I think every applicant in the CIC system has a legitimate complaint about wait times. The unfortunate reality is that you cannot project something you cannot control - which is the number of applicants flooding into the system. Obviously, the flood is increasing rather than decreasing and past CIC performance is not going to be accurate in estimating waits. For sure, the system has to be changed in that regard. The transition to a new system (whatever it is) will be painful.

As for our parents... the quotas and waits have never been guaranteed - in the same way that no other classification has been guranateed. Yes, it is a hardship and an emotional drain on a family. Those in the skilled worker wait would likely want to debate who is suffering more.

The complaint has been lodged that the government did not give the appropriate attention and response to our lobby group of sponsor families with their 2000 voice petition. I would submit that the lobby group needs to keep pushing and making their voices heard. It may result in a change in policy...and it may not. That is a risk. We do not always get what we want but at least the families who wait will have the satisfaction that they tried.

As for this not being a democracy...we have no idea how good we have it. If it is not agreeable to any Canadian - PR or citizen... the exit door is never locked.

[08-03-2005,13:23]
[***.81.114.40]
sharon
(in reply to: Canadian "democracy part 2)
"I think the dollar figure quoted as revenue from fees is exagerated."

Okay, lets see: every year, about 230,000 ne immigrants are coming to Canada. Each one of them is paying $1,500. That´s total of $345,000,000.
The current backlog is about 600,000. Those people already paid $500 processing fee. That´s an additional 300,000,000. Even assuming that half of them are including in the previous number, that´s still about 150M.
The total number is about half a billion every year.

"The unfortunate reality is that you cannot project something you cannot control - which is the number of applicants flooding into the system."

The problem is not flooding - the problem is quotas.

"The complaint has been lodged that the government did not give the appropriate attention and response to our lobby group of sponsor families with their 2000 voice petition."

You still don´t get my point. The complain is: they are LYING to us. They are sendng us letters saying that processing in Canada will be 12-14 months, while in fact, the processing HAS STOPPED. People are waiting already 20 months, and we have no idea how much longer will it take. And they continue to say that "the objectives of Immigration and Refuge protection Act are? to see that families are reunited in Canada". Just an empty words. Waiting 10 years means a slow death for my parents. They are survived Holocaust, but they have a good chance not to survive the Canadian government.

"As for this not being a democracy...we have no idea how good we have it. If it is not agreeable to any Canadian - PR or citizen... the exit door is never locked."

How typical... You think that you have such a perfect country, such a perfect system, and anyone who doesn´t like it - the door is open.

P.S. I guess people are not interested in RRSP alternative. It´s convenient just to what government is telling you to do.

[08-03-2005,14:01]
[**.10.219.38]
prg