democracy part 3

Canada Immigration Forum (discussion group)


 
       
Subject: democracy part 3
  your math really does not work.

There is a total of 600,000+ applications in the system. that is about 3 years worth of applications. Fees only get paid once, not every year. Base your number on 230,000. The revenue on an annual basis ($550 and $975) is about $345,000,000. Now... how much do you think it costs to process 230,000 successful applications? Count overhead, overseas housing allowances for immigration staff, police costs for background clearances, wages, deporation costs, interview costs, etc.

Big money maker? You are not convincing me.

In your statement you say that the processing of parental sponsorships have stopped. Can you prove this claim? Or is the reality that the gate has been narrowed and they are simply reducing the quota for this year. If they have stopped processing, then your statement about 10 years is inaccurate. They would not be processed ever!

I understand this is a motherhood, heart on the sleeve issue. But please do not throw info out there that does not stand the credibility test. It causes politicians to ignore you or to send you off to talk with their assistant. It also makes it hard for people like me to empathize with your situation and support your cause.




[08-03-2005,15:55]
[***.181.198.246]
sharon
(in reply to: democracy part 3)
"There is a total of 600,000+ applications in the system. that is about 3 years worth of applications. Fees only get paid once, not every year. Base your number on 230,000. The revenue on an annual basis ($550 and $975) is about $345,000,000."

That´s why I took half of 600,000. You are sayng I should take third? No problem: 200,000*$500 = $100,000, plus $345,000,000 is $445,000,000. Still pretty close to half a billion that I mentioned.

"Now... how much do you think it costs to process 230,000 successful applications? Count overhead, overseas housing allowances for immigration staff, police costs for background clearances, wages, deporation costs, interview costs, etc.
Big money maker? You are not convincing me."

Interview costs are included in wages. I don´t know what the cost is, but I´m sure it´s MUCH less than half a billion per year.

"In your statement you say that the processing of parental sponsorships have stopped. Can you prove this claim? Or is the reality that the gate has been narrowed and they are simply reducing the quota for this year. If they have stopped processing, then your statement about 10 years is inaccurate. They would not be processed ever!"

The folowing link:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/times/process-in.html
provides current processing times.
For every category, it contains "Processing Applications Received Up To" date and "Current Processing Time".
For parents applications. the date is June 24, 2003 and current processing time is 20 months (the difference between today and June 24, 2003).
The point is that this date hasn´t changed from March 2004! The processing time was 8 months, and it has been increasing every month since then.
Now, how do you call this situation?

Regarding the embassies. The following link:
http://sponsoryourparents.ca/processing_time.htm
gives you the ratio between 2005 quota and the inventory. As you can see, the ratio is 10.9 years in Beijing, 5.8 years in Moscow etc.

So, as per today, the processing in Canada has stopped since March 2004, and processing in embassies has been slowed dramatically, to 5-10 years. Those are the facts.
Now, where do those facts not stand the credibility test?

[08-03-2005,16:15]
[**.10.219.38]
prg
(in reply to: democracy part 3)
Sharon, applicants must pay application fee for EVERY member of your family who is over 18 and part of that for those under 18. That 600,000 is the number of applications not the total application fee that paid by them. If CIC is trthful, they can stop accepting new applications until the current applications are processed and then accept new ones. Currently they just get your money and put it in their pocket and after a year say hi to you. It´s just unfair!

Furthermore, you abandon the money that every immigrant actually brings to Canada. As an immigrant you MUST bring $10,000 CAD to Canada when you arrive in Canada or they simply deport you. Thi number becomes larger and larger when you are married and have kids.

If the governers do not know how to use that money, it´s just because of their inefficiency, mismanagement and lack of merit, not applicant fault! I do believe that new applicants are all cheap labour for Canada who do hard jobs but get very low salaries.


[08-03-2005,17:18]
[***.240.241.67]
Anonymous
(in reply to: democracy part 3)
Sharon,

Why application for people who are currently in Canada should be processed in Buffalo? Do you have a reasonable answer? Give me an answer please.

[08-03-2005,17:24]
[***.240.241.67]
Anonymous
(in reply to: democracy part 3)
"If CIC is trthful, they can stop accepting new applications until the current applications are processed and then accept new ones. Currently they just get your money and put it in their pocket and after a year say hi to you. It?s just unfair!"

Not only this, but they don´t tell you how long can you expect for your application to be processed. This is true for all immigration classes.

I didn´t have any problems with other government ministries (Transportation, Human Resources, even Revenue Canada). They are all efficient and fair.
But Citizenship and Immigration? It has been a disaster for many years.

[08-03-2005,17:27]
[**.10.219.38]
prg
(in reply to: democracy part 3)
This is from Immigration hotline:

"Newly released figures from Statistics Canada confirm that Toronto and Vancouver serve as Canada´s immigrant magnets; "42% of all new arrivals to Canada settled in Toronto," says Statscan´s November 4 news release. The Globe and Mail´s lengthy article on the subject repeatedly refers to Toronto as "an experiment". A visit to the Statscan site leaves you with the distinct impression that "the experiment" was concocted with a Li´l Monster Junior Science Kit. Immigrants from each category were asked what their career intentions were in Canada. It´s important to remember as you read, these figures reflect SUCCESSFUL applicants - those who were actually admitted to the country.
Immigration overall do not intend to work 32.55%
Family class do not intend to work 47.12%
Business class do not intend to work 51.08%
Skilled workers do not intend to work 21.46%
Refugees do not intend to work 20.64%
"Other" category do not intend to work 15.64%
Toronto profile do not intend to work 30.72%
Vancouver profile do not intend to work 33.75%
Montreal profile do not intend to work 28.42%

Do you still want to know why immigration does place some financial demands for Canadian economy. ROLF is there to pay for ID cards(235 000 x 50$ = 11 750 000), ESL courses for newcomers(235 000 x ???=???) etc..and finally those health and social costs arising later..add together.....


[08-03-2005,17:50]
[***.140.218.9]
April
(in reply to: democracy part 3)
"Family class do not intend to work 47.12%
Business class do not intend to work 51.08%
Skilled workers do not intend to work 21.46%
Refugees do not intend to work 20.64% "

Just to remind you that the family class is the only class that is not eligible for any help from the Canadian government (except healthcare).
Skilled workers and refugees that don´t intend to work will be much bigger burden on the society.

"Do you still want to know why immigration does place some financial demands for Canadian economy. ROLF is there to pay for ID cards(235 000 x 50$ = 11 750 000), ESL courses for newcomers(235 000 x ???=???) etc..and finally those health and social costs arising later..add together....."

I have no problem with financial demands, but I want to get a service for the money that I´m paying.
The things that you have mentioned are very small money compared to the contribution that most immigrants give to the society.
Take the real estate boom as a small example. Do you really think that it would be possible without the immigration?

[08-03-2005,18:09]
[**.10.219.38]
prg
(in reply to: democracy part 3)
I don´t like my case is processing in the Buffalo too, should inland process like sponsors
[08-03-2005,18:38]
[***.25.33.24]
Yijie
Sharon .. (in reply to: democracy part 3)
Dear Sharon:: I think your love for Canada is blinding you a little bit. I am sure immigration it some kind of profitable for the government, they would not have the doors so open otherwise.
[08-03-2005,18:55]
[***.148.232.87]
bitchy
(in reply to: democracy part 3)
this is what I know. our system is no more expensive than most other highly desireable destinations. Our policies and acceptance criteria are some of the easiests of all desireable destinations. what more do we want.

we can sit here an debate numbers all day. The system is not perfect and niether is the country. However, it is the best we have at the moment and I trust that my government is putting the interest of the country first- not second to anyone or any particular interest group. That is their job. Like I have said...nobody has been forced to apply, wait in line, come here or stay here. April´s statistics are shocking.

[08-03-2005,19:42]
[***.181.198.246]
sharon
(in reply to: democracy part 3)
Sharon, you said that "But please do not throw info out there that does not stand the credibility test."

I gave you some facts. Could I please get your response? Based on those facts, do you beleive that:
1.Processing in Canada has stopped;
2.Processing in embassies can take up to 7-10 years;
3.Total processing times can exceed 10 years.

Do you think that´s reasonable?

[08-03-2005,20:51]
[**.185.85.73]
prg
(in reply to: democracy part 3)
I am still reading 20 months on the website but I will accept what you say that the date is not changing. I cannot find any official government statement on the subject.

no, it is probably not reasonable way to handle things. Perhaps the best solution would be for CIC to return the money to all parental sponsorship applicants and tell them the truth. When they are ready to process, they can start to accept applications again.

they should probably do the same for skilled workers when the wait is more than 2 years. Then people would not be hoping and waiting endlessly.


[08-03-2005,22:45]
[***.81.114.40]
sharon