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| Subject: Canada: From dreams to nightmares (a news article) |
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Hello everyone,
I just got my passport stamped at Buffalo. I had applied in Feb 2004 and had gotten my request for medicals in October 2004.
I recently came accross this news article in an Indian news website which is sort of disturbing ... can some of the people here who have landed in Canada provide their input on the claims made by this article.
best regards,
Sac
http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=48607&headline=Canada:~From~Indian~dreams~to~nightmares
New Delhi, June 11: Far from being the El Dorado of repute, for many immigrants Canada has emerged as a land of unmitigated disaster. From rampant discrimination to hidden booby traps, Indians have been forced into an economic quagmire that has generated despair and dejection.
Wretched tales abound of even highly qualified Indians landing up in Canada, only to find that they don´t get the job that their college degrees and experience require, having to instead settle for a dead-end job, even to the extent of being a sweeper with a PhD!
Unfortunately, for those who actually manage to land the job they want, are sometimes paid 80% or even 70% of the amount a white Canadian will be paid for the same work. This is increasingly happening in recent years, signalling that Indians and the rest of Asians are deliberately discriminated against.
While many say that previously most white Canadians were not really highly educated and that is why immigrants from Asia in the 60s, 70s, and 80s were able to bag jobs that were highly lucrative and satisfying, turning Canada into the proverbial land of milk and honey for themselves.
No longer. The International Herald Tribune´s Clifford Crauss tells the tale of Gian Sangha who was so desperate for a job that he willingly cut his hair and removed his turban to canvass for employment, even though he was a Sikh.
An environmental scientist, Sangha even had a doctorate from Germany and had taught in US. "Here in Canada, there is a hidden discrimination," Sangha said. He says Canadian institutions have refused to give him jobs sometimes providing excuses that he is over-qualified for the job!
He is suing them for discrimination. To scrape by, he once cut lawns. Now he does clerical work and shares his house with his extended family. It was not supposed to be this way in Canada, which years ago put out a welcome mat to professionals from around the developing world. With a declining birth rate, an aging population and labor shortages in many areas, Canada, a sparsely populated nation, has for decades opened its doors to engineers, health professionals, software designers and electricians.
But the results of this policy have been mixed, for Canada and for the immigrants. Recent census data and academic studies indicate that the incomes and employment prospects for immigrants are deteriorating. Specialists say a growing number of immigrants have returned to their homelands or migrated to the United States. About 25 percent of recent immigrants with university degrees are working at jobs that require only high school diplomas or less, government data show.
However, writes Crauss, the Canadian public continues to support the government´s goal of increasing immigration, and relations among ethnic groups are good, though neighbourhoods in some cities are becoming more segregated. But some fear that if opportunities for immigrants do not expand, social cohesion may suffer. "The existing system is broken," said Jeffrey Reitz, a sociologist who studies immigration at the University of Toronto. "The deteriorating employment situation might mean that Canada will not be able to continue this expansionist immigration program in the positive, politically supported environment that we´ve seen in the past."
Reitz estimates that foreign-educated immigrants earn a total of $2 billion less than an equivalent number of native-born Canadians with comparable skills because they work in jobs below their training levels.
What immigrants may also be up against is a system that refuses to recognise many of the degrees earned by these people back home. It creates the kind of piquant situation where Canada advertises for doctors and nurses abroad, yet refuses to give Indian medics a job in a hospital, because their degrees are not valid here. Thousands are left jobless.
But there is a light at the end of the tunnel, but not for immigrants. Crauss says, the children of immigrants, who enter the job market with Canadian credentials, typically do better at acquiring high-paying jobs. "We have an arcane infrastructure of professional organizations that essentially mitigate against the immediate integration of these highly skilled immigrants," Joe Volpe, the minister of citizenship and immigration
Volpe said he was concerned that news from disappointed job seekers would seep back to their native countries and discourage qualified people from immigrating.
For Sangha it may have become what he says is "a painful life. I´m angry and frustrated. I never thought it would be like this in Canada."
Immigrants find themselves going cold, wet and hungry in a land they had sacrificed everything they owned to reach. Believing they would be treated well, that their willingness to work long and hard even in inhospitable conditions of Canada would bring them wealth, that jobs would be aplenty, these people are now in a situation that is threatening their health and life because of the longstanding nature of their woes.
They can´t even go back to India. Some feel ashamed to go back penniless to their families. It would mean that they were not smart enough to do well as the going principle is that, ´In vilayet even monkeys become millionaires´. Others simply can´t put together enough money to pay for their ticket.
This trend has increasingly translated into numerous Indian families moving into so-called slum areas of Canadian cities as they increasingly get impoverished.
For these people ebullience has turned into depression and their chance for plenty has transformed into poverty. Many of them have been left scrounging on Canada´s unemployment benefits even having to rely on unemployment insurance and welfare, which is anathema to an Indian.
The only thing in all this misery that is making them continue to hold body and soul together are their children. They are expected to do better and achieve the dreams that have been denied to their parents.
Hope, and scant else, is all that these Indians have been left with after travelling tens of thousands of kilometres to a foreign land. They must be ruing the day they decided to get their passport and jet out of India.
[11-06-2005,16:26]
[***.188.89.97]
Sac |
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(in reply to: Canada: From dreams to nightmares (a news article))
Sac, you have applied in Buffalo which tells me you are either in Canada or the US. What is your own personal experience? Canada and the US are not that different.
[11-06-2005,16:38]
[***.20.170.23]
sharon |
Hi Sharon (in reply to: Canada: From dreams to nightmares (a news article))
I have read a lot of your posts on this forum. Some of them have been very insightful. It was also nice to note that you at times would empathise with people when they would run out of patience waiting for a reply from the canadian consulate.
I am in the US. I have never been to Canada so cannot really compare the two. Like a lot of people, since I so far have not been able to get a US green card, I though of getting a canadian one as a back up and to use the same to enter US again. Nothing spectacular there.
I have heard that Toronto is very much like any other big US city and that it is a very big financial center (3rd infact in north america after new york and chicago). I have also read quite a bit of articles notebaly in the Economist about how canada tries to be different from the US, and how it is very Socialist like France or Germany. How people there try to define it not by saying what it is but by saying how its is different from the US from one issue to the other.
But ofcourse all this is just what I have read and heard from people. No first hand experience of Canada.
My suggestion to people, especially younger folks would be that the best way to immigrate to a country is by first attending a school/college in that country. It´s kinda like taking the ramp before coming on the highway (if you know what I mean)
There are quite a few good internationally renowned schools in Canada. Getting a degree from there, while understanding the country in the mean time and then using the university´s skilled resources to find an employment would be one way to enter and then settle in canada.
This is how I entered US first as a student and now as a working professional. As long as the US is concerned this startegy worked great for me. I think it should work in Canada as well.
regards,
Sac.
[11-06-2005,17:08]
[***.188.89.97]
Sac |
(in reply to: Canada: From dreams to nightmares (a news article))
Oh I am sad... I just wrote a novel to you and it vanished.
[11-06-2005,18:35]
[***.20.170.23]
sharon |
(in reply to: Canada: From dreams to nightmares (a news article))
Hi,
I am sorry to hear that. I know how frustrating that can be. Hopefully you would find the energy to write a brief summary of that novel sometime. I will look forward to that.
regards,
Sac.
[11-06-2005,20:09]
[***.188.89.97]
Sac |
(in reply to: Canada: From dreams to nightmares (a news article))
I should be cleaning my house but this is much more fun :)
Sac,I will try again. first, thank you for your kind words.
Your own post is in such contrast to the item you offered initially. I see your suggestions as pragmatic and wise. You may discover that once you are in Canada, the green card magic will disappear. I hope so. We would like to keep you if we can.
The person in the news article screams ´tale of woe -feel sorry for me ? if you do not feel bad yet, here is some more bad stuff´. I know people like him (and they are white and born in Canada!) After a while their whining and crying gets boring. It?s like the guy who claims he sent out 50,000 resumes and not one resulted in a job.
However, he mentions something very valid that I think fuels the disappointment, anger and frustration- the expectations of loved ones in his home country. The pressure must be unbelievable.
I know of 2 examples that I will tell you about. One is a Nigerian friend living in the US. He arrived on a sports scholarship when he was 17. His family pooled their resources to assist his travel and sent him off with high hopes. He was the only boy in the family.
15 years later, he has his degree in business and has made the US his home. Unfortunately, work opportunities are not what he would like and so he is currently employed at Home Depot. He is OK with this. Sure, he wishes he could do more with his career but the stars are not lining up the way he would like them to. He keeps trying. He dreams about a soccer school. He always says he is grateful for his place to live, the food in his refrigerator, the cheap internet access, his car, and countless other things that were only a dream for him as a child.
He tells me that when he calls home, or goes home to visit, he gets a long sad story about their situation. He helps them a little bit every month but somehow they think he should be a millionaire ? after all he is in the USA, and there is money on a tree outside his house and he is being stingy, selfish, or lying when he says he sends every little bit he can home. He feels like such a failure. Sometimes it gets so bad that he does not answer the phone when he knows its his relatives. If he went back home to live in Nigeria, he could probably have a good job with his US education but the stigma of failure would be overwhelming.
J?s first trip home after moving to the states was terrible. He was expected to pay for everything, bring presents, be the big shot. His plane ticket cost him $1,900. He saved for months to go home and then felt badly the entire time he was there that he could not behave like a millionaire.
My experience with J has helped me ask questions and set the stage for the arrival of my fianc?. When we first talked about his immigration there was a long list of big dream questions ? could he buy a car some day, could he travel, could he have a house some day, could he go to a soccer match? Every time I said yes it was possible, his eyes got bigger and he would say I was lying. Then it moved to the dreams of helping his family. I had to explain to him that yes, he has the opportunity to earn good money as a software engineer in Canada, but he might not find work right away. He would also need to expect it to take 2 years before he could even think about sending money home to his family. And if he did that? it would mean giving up certain things he would like to do for himself. I felt like such a kill joy. And he would be lucky because he already had someone in Canada to help him find his way!
How can someone relate to the fact that $50,000 does not mean you are rolling in cash in Canada/US ?especially when they earn $5-6,000 a year in their home country. It is tough, if not impossible. My guys family tries hard to understand, because they trust me. The relatives and friends are far more skeptical. He has become a bigshot because he is going to Canada. I am sure HE would not believe the truth about Canada/US either if he did not trust me. He finally sees Canada as an opportunity for a better life ? not a guarantee of one. Most of it is up to him. There have been times he has been discouraged with CIC and begs me to come live there. The idea of adjustment and recreating a life terrifies me - I don´t think I could do it. In my mind he is very brave to make such a choice.
When people fill out that first CIC application, what do they imagine life will be like? I think the answer to that really impacts the dream or nightmare experience.
[11-06-2005,20:39]
[***.20.170.23]
sharon |
(in reply to: Canada: From dreams to nightmares (a news article))
I can see why he (Mr J.) stayed back here, because he is doing well here, and yes sharon you have brought up my point yet again, that you compare that with what you would be doing back home, and that is where the satisfaction is coming from. Moreover, almost always, these success stories are always of people who are not doing good in their life before they come over here. But our discussions are somewhat the other way round, people who are already doing good, and we are asking them to go back to the things that they felt they should not be doing.
Your final question was also significant. Immigration is a big thing, but sometimes people want to do it for different reason, case in point for Canada is the proximity to US. I am ready to go on record to say that if the NAFTA accord is taken back, you would not see so many people getting in line to go across the border, good riddance ?? I say definitely yes. As you have also noted before Canada should not let ppl in who just want to use it as a stepping stone. I totally agree with that point of view. Sometimes people take decisions without a lot of information, in fact someone following these posts (including myself) will now be more informed abt everything in general abt Canada. Coming back to your question, if a person truly asks that about Canada before filling the form for immigration (especially skilled people whose skills are not in demand in Canada), I am sure there will not be such long waiting times, and no one will be in this forum (Boo hoo!!) But then on the good side only serious people will be interested, and you will see more "unskilled" labor coming into Canada, just suitable for what it wants.
[12-06-2005,11:52]
[**.113.191.176]
Raj |
(in reply to: Canada: From dreams to nightmares (a news article))
Raj... the last thread is closed where you asked a question of Departure Bay. I think DB and I have enough mutual respect where I can answer the question for him. In past threads he has admitted that his written english skills are poor, but I think he has just finished a college program. I am familiar with the job he holds. I am pretty sure it pays between $8-12 dollars and they hire for personality ask much as education. He works in an information centre for tourists. Most people would consider it ´un-skilled´.
Having said that, DB has a great attitude about it. He sees it as an opportunity to learn, network, see the world and improve his situation. I suspect he will outgrow the job very quickly.
[12-06-2005,15:05]
[***.20.170.23]
sharon |
(in reply to: Canada: From dreams to nightmares (a news article))
back to our thread...
I think we both agree that satisfaction is linked in a significant way to the status of the applicant in their home country. If they were doing well at home, Canada would have a much better chance of being a disappointment.
So why do people want to come to Canada who have economic stability and status in their home country? social/religious freedom? health care? gateway to the US? The only one I can imagine making such huge sacrifices for is social and religious freedom.
Don´t be mistaken, Canada needs ´skilled´ labour. Obviously we need to adjust our thinking about what that word means in the Canadian context.
[12-06-2005,15:12]
[***.20.170.23]
sharon |
(in reply to: Canada: From dreams to nightmares (a news article))
Yes, since they compare their life in Canada with their previous status in their country of origin Canada has a higher chance to dissapoint them if they were doing well back home.
There are certain other reasons, that might differ from person to person. I´m trying to list a few that I can think of....
I would like to add that, these are reasons for which people fill out the immigration application.
1. (Better) Economic stability. Earning in dollars for a significant part of your life will buy you a good future back home. (if they choose to return, that´s what they all say anyway !)
2. A better standard of living. As we all know, the western world is much advanced then the rest of the world. (ok maybe except Europe) As you say sometimes, turn on the tap, and there´s water and other small (although important) things like that.
3. Maybe social/religious freedom too (but I think they form a very small percentage) I guess refugees will be included under this category.
4. Passport to the US.
Ok now I´m thinking out loud....
Those under category 3 and 4 are indifferent, they will be happy no matter what happens to them in Canada, as their reason for being there is very specific and is a necessity.
The 1 and 2 will have issues if they feel that Canada has not been able to provide what they came here for. For example "rent" is a significant part of monthly expense. Even if you are not working you have to pay that. Back home, in most cases, you would have a house, so not a major issue if you are out of work. (of course for a short while)
So now, you have to move into a relatively shady neighborhood (cheaper rents), see things you don´t want to see, may get scared (new place jitters or afraid of the guy next door or whatever), paying for college, working on menial jobs, having little or no sleep etc etc, things can really get way out of hand I imagine. So the tolerance level is not that much (looking at their depleting bank balance) and they will very soon jump to the conclusion that they might have been better off in their home country.
[13-06-2005,01:05]
[**.113.191.176]
Raj |
(in reply to: Canada: From dreams to nightmares (a news article))
I never thought about your last paragraph.
please... keep thinking out loud. I want to hear.
[13-06-2005,01:15]
[***.20.170.23]
sharon |
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