To Boss 2/2

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Subject: To Boss 2/2
  1- I agree 100% with points 1 to 5. In fact I did summarize that in my original post by saying that Canada is one of the best places to raise children.
2- No body expects that their international educational or professional credentials would be universally recognized however it is not fair to dismiss and to degrade those credential automatically either. I think that changes are needed such that new immigrants have a fair chance to prove themselves. Ok let us say the new immigrants represent 10% of the total workforce in Canada (I just made up this number), then 10% of the current jobs in the job market (let us temporary, part time and / or entry level jobs) should be allocated for new immigrants. Example: for some one like me, I would welcome the chance to be employed as a part-time instructor in a community college teaching only one course for one semester?would that be too much to ask?. If some immigrant proves himself worthy then good for him and good for Canada, if he performs poorly then he has only himself to blame. That vicious circle of ?no Canadian experience ? no job / no job ? no Canadian experience? must be broken for the benefit of Canada and the immigrants.
3- When I said that most of the new immigrants are choosing Canada despite of the unemployment problems (they have to choose the lesser of two evils) I did not mean only immigrants from US. Other major contributors to Canadian immigration like China, India, Pakistan and the Philippines are either suffering from political or economical problems or both. If things were different in those countries, immigration levels to Canada would have been much lower.
4- If you really want to people to be genuinely interested in Canada, then Canada has also to be genuinely interested in new immigrants by reaching out and allowing them to compete in a fair environment, stamping somebody?s passport with a visa and then leaving them to fend for themselves in a biased environment does not help at all.
5- I would not trade living in the open-minded, tolerant and peaceful Canada for the all the gold in Fort Knox, USA.
6- ?True. It takes longer to solve. So what?, I totally disagree, slow justice is as cruel as injustice, it is the duty, right and privilege of educated people like you and me to fight for fast change when change is needed. This way we can benefit ourselves and our new home country.
7- ?Getting a job is difficult. But once you get it, its should be pretty much good life after that.? I guess the core problem we are debating here is how long it would be to get your first good job. I hope that you agree with me that having to wait 5-10 years (Like those stories that are being aired on CIC news) to get your first chance and forcing good people to live in poverty and/or on welfare is too much to ask.
8- ?Pay is slightly lower compared to US and taxes are more , but that amount goes for centralized healthcare anyways?. For myself I find that the social benefits outweigh the less pay, that does not mean that I totally approve of the economical policies of Canada although this is a totally different subject and needs a new thread just let me point to the fact that the most successful province in Canada (Alberta) with the least unemployment rate (3.5%) is the province with least taxes and least minimum wage (5.9$/hour).

I hope this that this follow up clears things up. I am sure that the best way to reaching a solution that would satisfy the interests of both new immigrants and Canada is for immigrants to unite and have one voice that speaks on their behalf. After all most new immigrant have made significant sacrifices to come this beautiful democratic country, let us take advantage of the system and make it work for the good of everybody , let us work on establishing some kind of political representation that can speak and act on our behalf.


[17-06-2005,00:13]
[**.17.183.209]
New immigrant
(in reply to: To Boss 2/2)
1. As you rightly said, Canada has its own merits and demerits. Every one of us agree. The logic is, some find too many mertis, some find lesser. The IGNORED TRUTH IS THAT EVEN IF IT HAS LESSER MERITS (positives), it is still better than USA or China or India or Pakistan or Europe.
Problems typical to USA are not seen in Canada, problems typical to China are not seen in Canada, problems typical to India are not seen in Canada, problems typical to Europe are not seen in Canada, problems typical to Australia are not seen in Canada, problems typical to Middle east Asia (gulf) are not seen in Canada. These problems are largely personal and partly due to the system.

Does Canada now make a better candidate, atleast in a selfish perspective?? This is the real truth. But MOST people can?t call a spade a spade, instead they say, we would like to contribute to Canada?s growth. When you hardly match skills Vs opportunities I doubt the valuable contribution. Sorry dudes, I know its hard to take.

So the answer to your first query "If Canada is that bad, why are so many people immigrating to Canada, there has to be a reason" hopefully is answered here.

2. Now, the second. As you see, skilled worker category applicants are not meant to fill all skilled jobs in Canada. The applicants are CONSIDERED skilled (based on logical evaluation) in their respective or NOC-listed professions. That does not mean there exists vacancy for that skill. It probably means that there will be a likely opportunity for tha particular skill(s) that needs to be capitalised or utilized. So, there will be people who DO NOT or CANNOT match the opportunities Vs skills at some point of time. These may be due to their GOOD or BAD credentials (academic/ scholastic), attitude, personality, perspective, and mental pre-disposition. Could be some or all. These mismatches are the ones what we see in the forum posts. I may land in Canada soon, and after giving the job market a try, I think I may be able (or may not be able) to match skills Vs opportunities. If it matches, Canada is heaven. If it does not, blame it on CIC, Canada or racist employers. Easy right??

Don?t you think the same applies to USA/Germany/Australia/ Switzerland/Singapore? I guess so and that is what I hear from my international friends. So why cribb about Canada?? Something I do not really really understand.

Did the Government commit to providing employment?? They provided statistics and data (secondary); able people interpret and manage it. Less able get stuck. This has nothing to do with Ph.D or MBA or a diploma or high school. It is just the ability to match skills Vs opportunities. So I disagree with people who complain though the truth could be "new immigrants do not EASILY find jobs or the jobs they like". This will never end as long as suitable matches are unavailable be it a low or high profile job. So in response to your second thinker, "If so many new immigrants are complaining about their dis-satisfaction, there has to be some truth to it." I hope this is the truth.

These are my personal views. I may be wrong at some aspects, and some or many may agree/disagree. But my honest and personal views. Apologies for being impolite at time. Thanks guys for the valuable posts.

[17-06-2005,03:54]
[***.158.206.40]
HC
(in reply to: To Boss 2/2)
HC,
Thanks for expressing your view. I have a few observations.

I am not of the opinion that the Govt. should give a job to every skilled immigrant. But I feel its the Govt´s responsibility to atleast make the immigrant eligible for an opening at a firm if he is qualified and has the relevant work experience.

Now, I don´t know who or where your international friends are from, but this much I know, that atleast in the USA and Australia, skilled immigration makes you eligible for a job rightaway because they do the "education assessment" and work experience evaluation before you immigrate. I am just talking about making the new "skilled" immigrant eligible to apply, not assuring him/her a job. I hope you can see the subtle difference.

If your idea of immigration is to brainwash the new immigrant into taking up college again in Canada to make him/her Canada ready, I am not ok with that concept.

These days you have excellent tools to judge the persons aptitude, mental ability, management skills, work experience and job suitability, and giving reasons like "no Canadain experience or education" is total BS. Every company will agree that not all the employees hired by them are a perfect fit in their company, so I don´t see an issue with it at all.

As you said, these are my personal views. Thanks again.

[17-06-2005,12:35]
[***.242.242.2]
Raj
(in reply to: To Boss 2/2)
HC,
Excellent post there. i applaud what you said. Coming to raj´s post, I do not know where he got the information that immigrants are not eligible to apply for job in canada.I have known immigrants getting federal post in less than a year after they land as immigrants. A classic case was a collegue who was working with me in research lab as research assistant. She had 4 years experience in pharmaceuticals , india before she moved to canada. After working for a year as research assistant for a prof she got a federal job as scientist in department of justice, ontario,canada .
All the immigrants are eligible to apply for jobs including government. But if really they have too many candidates for same position , obviously the employer prefers to go with someone who is from the system for long time.
Its like this.Assume thet 3 people have same skill sets but with different pedigree.
1. A guy with masters degree from canada and bachelors degree from foreign nation.
2. A guy born here with high school and bachelors and masters here.
3. A guy who is just an immigrant with masters degree.
Obviously choice 2 will be preferred no matter how good his skills are because the company has the confidence that they can train him/her since he is a citizen of this country and knows the culture well. the second preference will be 1 or 3 whoever is better. Thats what they are doing. Even its the same with US except in some areas like software where there are very few experts and so they hire people directly from asia.
Only thing about US is they make the immigration so tough that people forever are stuck with specific companies till they get their immigration.
The bottomline is every country wants to protect the jobs of the people who are born in that country and canada is no different in that. Even US is same. If not why did they reduce the quota of H1B in india to 65,000 from 130,000 or so and why there is a backlash in US congress regarding H1B visa.
Again one has to remember that canada is 10 times smaller than US, so the opportunities are also smaller.
My point is if you feel too negative about canada, why do you immigrate at all. You could choose to live and die in US or china or india or middle east itself. Hope this helps.

[17-06-2005,16:55]
[***.100.70.135]
Boss
(in reply to: To Boss 2/2)
The reason behind a country offering "skilled" immigration has to be to fill its shortage of "skilled" labor force with "skilled" people from outside. So allowing "skilled" immigrants into a country has to be tied to the existing labor force. "Boss", your post has definetely helped because your scenario of 1,2, 3 or whatever should not have existed in the first place if Canada would follow other countries for skilled immigration. Ok, maybe that is an extremely ideal situation, but you can see from previous posts that most of the complaints are from skilled immigrants. Your argument seems very good unless you try to read between the lines, as you seem to take the "skilled" factor out of it, as many have done before, and I´m sure this will happen in the future.

Coming to USA immigration, I agree, their immigration process as far as the timelines are concerned are really messed up, so people have to stay at the same place for 5-6 years, but their approach is the better approach of the two. They give you jobs in your "skill" if you are immigrating in that category. What you do later is upto you.

Another thing, how is Canada protecting its jobs by allowing so many skilled immigrants thereby increasing your case scenarios of 1,2,3 etc etc ? Remember, think about the "skilled" part of immigration, otherwise your case is perfect. Your explicit scenarios are implicitly facing 35-40 year old people with enough industry experience to go back to college.

I think Canada has enough skilled immigrants already in the system generally speaking. It should stop skilled immigrants in professions that are already "saturated" from coming in because by the way "Boss" thinks, they will go right at the end of the line, because people who have entered before them would have a better chance (not because they are more skilled by doing menial jobs, but the date on their PR is older than the new immigrant, so by your argument have to be better suited) You may think I have a very pessimistic view, its not the case, its just that I see people refusing to admit what is not right, due to whatever reasons.

Peace

[17-06-2005,19:03]
[***.242.242.2]
Raj
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