leading graduate programs

Canadian Universities Forum (discussion group)

Subject: leading graduate programs
One problem with Maclean´s (however imperfect to begin with) is that it never investigates which departments are strong at the various universities. It´s never looked at grad schools (the Globe once did a great job finding that Waterloo has a better law school than York!) People often assume that the leaders are always Toronto/McGill/UBC/Queen´s, and will only make exceptions in certain areas (i.e. Waterloo for engineering, Western for business, York for law, Carleton for journalism, etc.)

At the grad level things can change. For instance, I would say Toronto clearly beats Queen´s and McGill looking across all programs and that the creme-da-le-creme, quasi-Ivy reputation Queen´s and McGill hold is really more true at the undergrad that grad. McGill in particular is in fact a mixed bag - world-class in medicine, but rather marginal in other areas (like poli sci or economics)

So here´s an ambititious query. What do people think are the leaders in various areas? (pick whatever ones you want -history, sociology, physics, computer science, lit, etc.). We can go by school as well - what is say, SFU, Queen´s, Carleton, etc. strong in.

Here´s my crack in a few areas, feel free to expand or disagree

Math - Toronto, UBC, Waterloo

Poli sci - Toronto, Carleton, York (and also perhaps UBC, SFU, McMaster, Queen´s)

Econ - Toronto, UBC, Western, Queen´s

Philosophy - Toronto, McGill, ??

History - Toronto, York, ??

(in reply to: leading graduate programs)
(gradate programs)

Business (Most selective, sorted by average GMAT - BusinessWeek) - Queens (676 GMAT), Toronto (673 GMAT), Western (661 GMAT), York (650 GMAT).

Business (Highest salary after 3 yrs - Financial Times) - Toronto (103k US), Western (101k US), Queens (94k US).

Law (Most selective) - Toronto, McGill, York, Queens

Computer Science (Most selective) - Toronto, Waterloo, McGill

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UBC has a very strong physics dept., ranking #1 in citations per capita. Toronto is also up there (no surprise) and I believe McGill and McMaster are up there.

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For clinical psych

1) Waterloo
2) SFU
3) UBC
4) McGill
5) York

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In English: Toronto, UBC and Alberta are all very good
Canada has the equal of America's best (in reply to: leading graduate programs)
Ivy league comparison universities in Canada for post-grad is McGill, York, UBC and Queens.
McGill is famous for its post grad medical field and science fields, York is known for strong academics in post-grad business and a great law program (good luck getting in) and UBC is great for its more hands-on post grad programs in engineering and in environmental studies and has a great campus. Queens is a great university to study at undergrad level but there is not alot of grad students as compared to larger uni´s like McGill, NYU, York,
U Toronto and U Chicago.

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To Joe:

The law selectivity should go something like this:
Toronto, Osgoode, Queens/McGill, Western Ontario

I am a graduate student and have researched on alot of universities. Overall Toronto is currently at the top, followed by McGill, then UBC. One of the reasons Toronto is at the top is because of their huge endowement - 1.5 billion vs 800 million for the 2nd richest Canadian university (McGill). Even if Toronto stopped charging tuition, their endowement would still be 1.1 billion, a 300 million lead on McGill.

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This was copied straight from a press release from the Wall Street journal rankings for this year. If anyone does not know what the Wall Street Journal, it is one of the most prestigious business publications worldwide (based in USA).

I quote:-
"York (Schulich) ranked ahead of Harvard, Wharton, Berkeley and Cornell, and just behind Columbia, INSEAD and Stanford in The Wall Street Journal´s first ever "Top International Schools" survey. Schulich finished 9th among North American business schools, 6th among non-US schools, and was the only business school in Canada to make the international schools ranking. Schulich´s overall ranking was the highest ever attained by a Canadian business school in a major global survey."

Well, I guess you can have your cake and eat it after all!

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I find that extremely funny. Harvard is much more selective and Financial times shows an average salary after 3 years of 164k US. Schulich on the other hand - 84.5k US, beaten by Rotman at 103k US and ivey at 102k US - both of whom are more selective might I add.
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That´s a survey-based ranking... with only one criteria, and the survey is regional based, not nationally or internationally. It does not include selectivity of the business school, success of their graduates, or average starting salaries. If given the opportunity, 99% of people would pick schools like Harvard and Wharton over Canadian ones. The simple reason is that they have close to a 100% placement rate and double the average salary of us Canadian schools. Here is a more accurate ranking that takes in to account many criterias including average salary, placement success, alumni recommendation, etc on an international scale.


As you can see, York has an average salary of 85k after 3 years, compared to 157k for Wharton, 164k for Harvard, 103k for Rotman, 102k for Ivey and 94k for Queens. These are the facts - some schools may choose to target some areas more than other schools. For example I would expect the Bay street to be dominated by Canadian grads, and they would outrank most top American schools if given a survey.

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16:15 poster

One can´t say confidently it goes Toronto/McGill/UBC across all disciplines. Toronto is generally strong all over. McGill is very much a mixed bag - strong in the hard sciences, psychology and philosophy, but marginal in poli sci and economics. York is generally top-notch in the social sciences.

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what he said

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